Autocar: BRZ vs. MX-5 vs. 370Z

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by zygrene

Good point about CG and power-band, but the S2000 does have a higher power-to-weight ratio and accelerates noticeably faster on paper. I guess it just depends on what aspects of performance you think are "fun."

Yeah, I've driven an S2000 (Year 2000 2.0L model) and I'm pretty certain I would prefer an FR-S/BRZ. The FR-S shouldn't be as high strung and I didn't like the 2 stage VTEC. Also, the lower CG and more forward weight distribution will give it more stability. Not to mention, the BRZ gets better gas mileage and has a back seat/more trunk space.

But yeah... best car from Japan since the NSX? That's really pushing it I think.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by fatoni

because things like passing and merging happen. hp would help

That's not hp, it's called tq

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

because things like passing and merging happen. TQ would help

FIXED!!!

[Khyron686]

Originally Posted by jor8888

and u are going to drive ur car twisting all over the place to work every day? HP is everything for daily driving.

Let's see...

Legacy Wagon: 170hp 3500 lbs = 20.6 lbs/hp
Jetta Sedan, 1.8T: 180hp, 3040 lbs = 17 lbs/hp
Santa Fe v6: 275hp, 4100lbs = 15 lbs/hp
Honda Fit: 117hp, 2489 lbs = 21.3 lbs/hp
2010 WRX : 265 hp, 3400 lbs = 12.8 lbs/hp

I can get the drag racing angle - mustangs/911s/whatever sub 10lbs/hp but are you seriously trying to tell me a car with 14 lbs/hp is somehow a risky daily driver????!!!?????!!?????? Cannot believe...

GTFO, go buy an automatic Mustang GT, and be safe on your daily commute.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

Just out of curiosity, how much horsepower do you consider "enough?"

To me, it's more about the power band and torque. As long as I don't get the sensation of "Oh crap, where's the power?" when I put the pedal to the floor, then I'm good. With NA 4 cylinder engines, I think you pretty much have to be in the high rev range to get decent power. That high strung feeling can be uncomfortable for daily/aggressive driving. I'm hoping the BRZ won't be as bad though.

With that said, I think a 2.7L Boxer 6 making 265 hp/205 lb ft torque at 2800-2900 lbs would be really nice for this type of car. But they would need to move the transmission to the rear as a transaxle and it would increase the price by a few thousand probably.

So the realistic options Toyota/Subaru have to improve the power band are to increase the engine size to 2.5L, add Valvematic, or add a turbocharger. And I wouldn't want a turbocharger for this type of car.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by fatoni

because things like passing and merging happen. hp would help

The BRZ has a better power to weight ratio than a Legacy GT. I don't think anyone has criticized a LGT as being a slug in traffic.

Is it just the number that's too small?

[serialk11r]

Why would using more revs be uncomfortable? What's the point of having more revs if you're not going to use them? If you want to floor it and feel power, maybe we should just get rid of 6 speed boxes too, since 6th gear reduces passing power and shifting down would be "uncomfortable".

[86'd]

I still don't get the "power" problem.

For a sports car, 200hp seems a bit low, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

For a regular car 200hp in ~2700lbs is quick.

If my wife's Prius can get up to speed and pass cars, then I don't know what to tell you.

Driving Honda's all of my life with manual gearboxes, power is just a few shifts away. If you can't handle that, or more aptly don't want to handle that, then this definitely isn't the car for you.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I guess the s2k,rx8,miata,rx7,itr,and LFA didn't come out after the NSX. I hope some of you guys take this review with a massive grain of salt. Not saying I dont believe the car is great but you can honestly see BS when its written.

Well most of those cars lives ended before the NSX in '05, and only the S2k can rival that with the RX-8 being kinda heavy and not having the same fun factor.

Anyways... I'm getting kinda angry because we don't have any twisty roads here in South FL... IDK what Im going to do when I can't over take some old lady's Camry lol

-kidding aside, I hope some power for those straight liners here in FL come up D:

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

FIXED!!!

Originally Posted by fatoni

because things like passing and merging happen. hp would help

refixed

[Calum]

Have any of the nay sayers considered the power to weight and power to drag coefficient ratios? Or how about gearing? The BRZ and FRS have been quoted at 0.27 drag coefficient, combined with a 2700 lb curb weight, and a 4.11 rear end, that 200 horsepower doesn't have a lot of work to do.

Relax, drive the car before you decide, or just shut up and stop trying to convience us
that 200 horsepower is less then 201 horsepower. We get it and we don't give a sh!t.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Why would using more revs be uncomfortable? What's the point of having more revs if you're not going to use them? If you want to floor it and feel power, maybe we should just get rid of 6 speed boxes too, since 6th gear reduces passing power and shifting down would be "uncomfortable".

High horsepower/low torque cars don't give you the pushing back into the seat feeling. You just keep it floored until eventually you realize you're going fast enough.

I'm kind of surprised at how many people are defending less power. Is more power that bad? You guys are acting childish by saying, "Well then buy a Mustang or Camaro then." That's not the point. The point is to get as much power out of a car while keeping it light and balanced. American muscle cars are big, heavy, overly powerful cars - they are in a completely different class.

I don't think those of us questioning the power are asking for a 400hp V8. We would just like a little more torque on hand to complete the package of fun. Again, I think a 2.5L Boxer 4 would accomplish that quite well by adding minimal weight and enough torque/horsepower to actually beat out cars like the S2000 and RX-8 and give us a more useable power band for the road.

[armythug]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

why?

Well since you asked, because I'm the type of enthusiast that likes to have power on tap. I guess it's a personal preference.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

High horsepower/low torque cars don't give you the pushing back into the seat feeling. You just keep it floored until eventually you realize you're going fast enough.

I'm kind of surprised at how many people are defending less power. Is more power that bad? You guys are acting childish by saying, "Well then buy a Mustang or Camaro then." That's not the point. The point is to get as much power out of a car while keeping it light and balanced. American muscle cars are big, heavy, overly powerful cars - they are in a completely different class.

I don't think those of us questioning the power are asking for a 400hp V8. We would just like a little more torque on hand to complete the package of fun. Again, I think a 2.5L Boxer 4 would accomplish that quite well by adding minimal weight and enough torque/horsepower to actually beat out cars like the S2000 and RX-8 and give us a more useable power band for the road.

We're not saying that more power is bad.

We're saying that 200hp is not the deal-breaker that the "Moar powah!" crowd makes it out to be.

I would LOVE for the car to have more power. But I'm not upset that it only has 200. The late 80s 911 had 207hp. Yes, car technology has advanced, but physics hasn't changed a bit. And if anything, those same advancements in automotive tech mean the BRZ can make better use of that 200hp.

No one has said the BRZ is fast. And no one has said they don't want more power. (Though there may be some argument on the best way to get more power) But I think those saying the BRZ is slow have lost their perspective.

One of the most fun cars I've owned had 70hp, no power accessories, and an open rear diff. And at the end of the day, that's what this car is about; fun.