Report: BRZ STI Model Already in the Works, No Turbocharger

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Forged internals likely. I'd expect the heads to be almost totally reworked.



Not in this car. WRX/STI to make a return to WRC with a 1.6L though, is more likely.

There's a new R-GT class for 2WD cars, now... BRZ and WRX both in the WRC...?

[Levi]

Such good news. I am so happy it will stay NA. At least this will get off all the members on this forum that want more power. All wanting more power let them get the WRX or any other powerful and torquy turbocharged car. The are plenty of them, in fact there are only those kinds. As I said before:

BRZ / BRZ STI = NA + RWD
WRX / WRX STI = FI + AWD

This makes me want to have two Subarus in my garage.

[Captain Snooze]

I do not have enough knowledge to back up my thoughts on this, ok?

But 125hp/litre sounds to me like an awful lot for a low end engine. I mean Ferarri's 458 gets the same specific output and it's max power occurs at 9,000 rpm. Honda's S2000 was 237 bhp @ 8,3000 for 119bhp/litre. I don't think Subaru would go to the expense and trouble of designing an engine to rev that high.

Just my 3&1/2 cents.

[86fanatic]

Well as far as I can tell anyway the 250 number was pulled out of thin air by the reporter and had nothing to do with what Subaru said about reworking the exhaust and intake. There is no way this car will hit 170 torque without increased displacement.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

Well as far as I can tell anyway the 250 number was pulled out of thin air by the reporter and had nothing to do with what Subaru said about reworking the exhaust and intake.

Yup, I noted that too in my earlier post.

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I do not have enough knowledge to back up my thoughts on this, ok?

But 125hp/litre sounds to me like an awful lot for a low end engine. I mean Ferarri's 458 gets the same specific output and it's max power occurs at 9,000 rpm. Honda's S2000 was 237 bhp @ 8,3000 for 119bhp/litre. I don't think Subaru would go to the expense and trouble of designing an engine to rev that high.

Just my 3&1/2 cents.

Exactly. And great examples. 250hp out of 2.0L NA on a 2800 lb car sounds optimistic and can be done if the engine design were groundbreaking. Figures like that could catapult this car closer to the $40k-$50k or more range. You don't need to be super knowledgeable to figure out what is common sense.

Originally Posted by Levi

Such good news. I am so happy it will stay NA. At least this will get off all the members on this forum that want more power.

Won't stop some of those members from crying though. They'll proceed to complain about price.

[S2kphile]

Don't forgot they would have to comply with federal emissions and everyone knows governments can be strict bitches.

[zoomzoomers]

Now this is making it more difficult to wait.

So wait for the STI version or get the BRZ? Hmm... I'm gonna need to do some thinking.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I believe the S2000 came with a forged rotating assembly, but don't quote me. The fact the rumor says redline only moves to 7500 is conspicuous though: you'd expect retainers, valves, and valve springs to be upgraded so that the engine can spin higher.

I'm surprised only you noticed the 7500rpm thing. 250ps 7500rpm is bullshit. Someone either said something wrong or heard something wrong.

If it were 8500rpm that would be more believable. Lightened valves, stronger springs could be enough since I remember someone pointing out the rods appear forged, but not sure.

Originally Posted by 86fanatic

Well as far as I can tell anyway the 250 number was pulled out of thin air by the reporter and had nothing to do with what Subaru said about reworking the exhaust and intake. There is no way this car will hit 170 torque without increased displacement.

Yea I agree. 170 torque would place the specific torque at 85ft-lb/L or 115 Nm/L, which is possible, but extremely difficult to do. Ferrari managed 120Nm/L or 89ft-lb/L on the 458 but I bet the 458 probably only barely passes emissions/noise lol.

Actually Dimman brought up a few examples of older 2L engines which got pretty close to 170ft-lb before in other threads, but it goes without saying that they're making sacrifices somewhere, and would definitely fail several modern regulations. If they bore the engine out a tiny bit 250PS would become quite a bit easier to reach, but I can't see them doing that because in Japan I think 2L is the highest displacement in that range you can go before incurring a higher tax.

[Jordo!]

How the fuck are they going to get another 50 bhp out of that motor? There's no way that much was left on the table without boost.

If so, then I'm certainly intrigued to learn why they didn't just offer a more powerful model to begin with in both manufacturer flavors.

250 bhp puts that car in about the same power:weight group as the 370Z. I'd seriously consider that for my next car.

Okay -- Subie or Toyota or both, bring it on, because now we're talking.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I'm surprised only you noticed the 7500rpm thing. 250ps 7500rpm is bullshit. Someone either said something wrong or heard something wrong.

If it were 8500rpm that would be more believable. Lightened valves, stronger springs could be enough since I remember someone pointing out the rods appear forged, but not sure.

Agreed. Not sure why others were inattentive to the redline.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

If they bore the engine out a tiny bit 250PS would become quite a bit easier to reach, but I can't see them doing that because in Japan I think 2L is the highest displacement in that range you can go before incurring a higher tax.

Didn't stop them from giving us a 2.5L STI in 2004 when they had a SICK 2L STI. I don't see it happening, but there is a precedent: at the time the STI came here the current WRX was still 2L.

[serialk11r]

I guess, I'm not sure I want higher displacement though. I remember Tada saying the engine could put out 230ps easily, but they tuned it down for emissions and stuff.

Personally, I hope they revise the engine and let it hit say 8500ish. At that point I'd stop caring how much power it makes, and enjoy the sound

If the marketing guy meant 8500, then things are sounding pretty good.

And I hope they mean it when they say weight reduction. It would be nice to have it come from the factory with lightweight quarterpanels and roof, all painted.

[Dimman]

250 hp with a 7500 redline is completely plausible from a 1.6T... Here seagull, here seagull... heh...

Also Serial, I gave a few examples of older motors that made close to 85lb-ft/L without direct injection and with lower compression ratios. Remember I was basing it on the BEAMS which was ~80/L with less CR and no direct injection as well as the 2GRFSE which is 79/L and not a dedicated performance motor (also less CR). And also at the gains the FSE 2GR made over the regular FE.

This motor has 170 lb-ft in it easily so long as they are willing to sacrifice the wide, flat torque curve. Like I said, cams (plus supporting vavletrain), revised intake and exhaust geometry and it will be really close to the GT5 220/170 specs if not even better hp...

[S2kphile]

Originally Posted by Dimman

250 hp with a 7500 redline is completely plausible from a 1.6T... Here seagull, here seagull... heh...

Also Serial, I gave a few examples of older motors that made close to 85lb-ft/L without direct injection and with lower compression ratios. Remember I was basing it on the BEAMS which was ~80/L with less CR and no direct injection as well as the 2GRFSE which is 79/L and not a dedicated performance motor (also less CR). And also at the gains the FSE 2GR made over the regular FE.

This motor has 170 lb-ft in it easily so long as they are willing to sacrifice the wide, flat torque curve. Like I said, cams (plus supporting vavletrain), revised intake and exhaust geometry and it will be really close to the GT5 220/170 specs if not even better hp...

But will that pass federal emissions testing? Some of these old cars with these motors stopped being imported into the US; even though, they were still in production in Japan.

The only issue here is can it pass US emissions because I'm sure these FA20 motors can make more power.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by S2kphile

But will that pass federal emissions testing? Some of these old cars with these motors stopped being imported into the US; even though, they were still in production in Japan.

The only issue here is can it pass US emissions because I'm sure these FA20 motors can make more power.

Not going to get into a repeat of my missing torque conspiracy, but short answer about emissions: If they want to. The compromises here were in making a predictable power band it seems.