Drift-Office : UEL Shootout! (Borla vs JDL vs RWorks)

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

Just remember, different strokes for different votes yeah?

IMHO, I feel that the JDL offering is the better of the two, since it does give me to top end performance I'm looking for. Love the looks and quality that I've seen, and really, worth every penny to me. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it to you.

Again, this is if all things were equal, including who you pick as your tuner and how the calibration was performed - via the dyno or "e-tune".

My 2 cents!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Wait so this is showing JDL + stock exhaust vs borla + exhaust? What exhaust did the borla have? That could slightly skew the results.. If the exhaust netted an avg 2wtq across the power band then that would make the JDL beneficial for an entire half of the dyno plot over the borla, primarily being the top. What were the full mod list on both cars? You had said "Similar exhaust components" in a comparison of three but you said one had a stock exhaust so im confused.

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by transition

I thought we were comparing the data provided.



... and now you're just making things up nobody said.

Comparing the data provided here, yes, you can make a conclusion that the Borla header appears to be the better buy. This is why I look for multiple dynos and similar setups to what I would run. Majority of Borla header tunes resulted in lower numbers versus the other competition. This is actually one of the higher dynos I have seen with the Borla UEL tuned, which is quite impressive numbers wise.

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Wait so this is showing JDL + stock exhaust vs borla + exhaust? What exhaust did the borla have? That could slightly skew the results.. If the exhaust netted an avg 2wtq across the power band then that would make the JDL beneficial for an entire half of the dyno plot over the borla, primarily being the top. What were the full mod list on both cars? You had said "Similar exhaust components" in a comparison of three but you said one had a stock exhaust so im confused.

The JDL had stock exhaust from front to back and only the header according to the OP. This is why I immediately said this is skewed for that sole fact. The JDL in other dynos has left Borla in the dust with full exhaust setups on 93 oct. I know you've seen it yourself Nelsmar when tuning these locally there.

"All cars were 6MT, 92 Octane and most had exhaust systems, sans the vehicle with the JDL UEL which only had a stock exhaust system and an AVO Panel Filter (Dry)...

As you can see, the results are all fairly similar given the variables;"

That's a restriction for sure.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by FR-S Matt

The JDL had stock exhaust from front to back and only the header according to the OP. This is why I immediately said this is skewed for that sole fact. The JDL in other dynos has left Borla in the dust with full exhaust setups on 93 oct. I know you've seen it yourself Nelsmar when tuning these locally there.

"All cars were 6MT, 92 Octane and most had exhaust systems, sans the vehicle with the JDL UEL which only had a stock exhaust system and an AVO Panel Filter (Dry)...

As you can see, the results are all fairly similar given the variables;"

That's a restriction for sure.

Need a full list of mods on all 3 cars to really get a fair comparison. Not to mention the revworks, what all was done on that car? What over pipes, front pipes, etc.

P.S. Thanks for finally throwing this together, I would just love some more info!

[FR-S Matt]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Need a full list of mods on all 3 cars to really get a fair comparison. Not to mention the revworks, what all was done on that car? What over pipes, front pipes, etc.

P.S. Thanks for finally throwing this together, I would just love some more info!

Given the nature of this header, it would be so easy to swap this from car to car with the same mods.

Bob's initial test of the JDL is what reinforced my purchase in the header and justified the price to me.

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Wait so this is showing JDL + stock exhaust vs borla + exhaust? What exhaust did the borla have? That could slightly skew the results.. If the exhaust netted an avg 2wtq across the power band then that would make the JDL beneficial for an entire half of the dyno plot over the borla, primarily being the top. What were the full mod list on both cars? You had said "Similar exhaust components" in a comparison of three but you said one had a stock exhaust so im confused.

Yes, that JDL calibration is ONLY the header and and dry panel filter with an all STOCK exhaust system. The rest of them had some sort of catback or more. But again, EVERY car is different, even with the same configuration so ~ 3 WHP / TQ ATW is likely. It comes down to what you want to see...

The reference links provided will tell you what the setups had at the time of the tune...


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[industrial]

I think while this comparison is alright, it's not even close to definitive unless you work for fox news.You can draw some ideas from the results but there are so many variables that aren't controlled. Time, day, temperature, cars, other supporting mods, gas, oil, etc.

You really need to do a comparison test with the same car, same day. Each header being optimally tuned. Hard to do. Another thing that would increase the validity of any comparison between products such as these are more datapoints. Race results and more dynos. I think as the weather warms up this year and more people hit the track and get their cars tuned, we will have enough data points where we can draw some kind of informal conclusion as to what headers work better than others.

I think this data is neat but very misleading to label it a UEL shootout. It's not. It's an overlay of the dynoplots of 3 different cars that were tuned at different times with different parts and UEL headers. Even completely stock cars will vary a significant amount (scientifically speaking) from each other and based on temperature, gas quality, mileage, fluids. Would a 2% variance considering individual cars, supporting mods, temperature and gas quality cause a significant shift in the results? Could a delta of 6ft-lbs cause a significant change in the results? I don't think the effect size of any of the headers is great enough to ignore the possible variance.

I should also add, I greatly appreciate all the data Bob has provided the community. I'm not trying to shit on his thread. It's good to have more data. We need moar!

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by industrial

I think while this comparison is alright, it's not even close to definitive unless you work for fox news.You can draw some ideas from the results but there are so many variables that aren't controlled. Time, day, temperature, cars, other supporting mods, gas, oil, etc.

Seattle's temps are consistently cool and wet. All the runs sampled were also corrected, and thus, presented in "an all things equal" light given the conditions. I have done other vehicles with different gas but these were notably 92 Octane, from the Chevron outside my facility as I usually request them to get it there so that I have a basis. Most of my NA tunes are based off a stock OEM air box with a dry panel filter - and yes, there are variables indeed, but I've done my best in narrowing the critical factors down.

While they aren't laboratory grade, nor were they done on the same car (since no one is sponsoring me to do so) - it's still fairly indicative of the results you would see given the same conditions :

• Temp
• Tuning / Calibration - similar ignition / cam profile maps.
• 92 Fuel Octane
• Post Header Setup
• Stock OEM airbox with dry panel filter.

My 2 cents!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[gt1680]

First of all, I would like to thank Bob@driftoffice for doing this comparisson. It is enough for a common guys like me to help me choose the right header for my car. Although it is no very accurate shoot out as some of you said, it is still way better than no info at all. And for those of you who wants a really accurate shoot out data, just drive down to Bob's place with all the headers you want to compare, do the shoot out there and post the results here please, thanks

[Drift-Office]

For the next EL shootout, I will have one car with 2 different headers that I'll be performing the calibration on... Stay Tuned, as always!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Drift-Office

For the next EL shootout, I will have one car with 2 different headers that I'll be performing the calibration on... Stay Tuned, as always!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Include Nameless EL header please!

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Include Nameless EL header please!

+1

[Drift-Office]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Include Nameless EL header please!

Yes, that will be going into a direct H2H with the HKS EL setup, on the same car on the same day.


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

[StormTrooper]

Very nice..... My prediction is the nameless will take it until 6k then a slight edge to hks. We'll see.