Question for BRZ and GT-87 hps?

[Corey]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Companies with large exports typically have pre-arranged long-term currency swap agreements with banks/financial sector. So short-term fluctuations in exchange rates don't matter. Over the long-term countries with consistently appreciating currency (if there was such a thing) would experience a slowdown in wage growth, negating the effect of nominal exchange rate. So yeah, exchange rate movements are secondary. Especially in business that's not labor intensive, such as car production.

Since you apparently have no idea what's been happening with the Japanese currency for the last three years I'm not going to be the one to drag you out from under the rock. If you are interested though a simple google search will uncover quite a bit of information. https://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=o...w=1280&bih=675

And since you seem to believe the auto industry is immune to such things you should read this, from the first page of that search: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ye...eas-37868.html

Here's a beauty from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44071217/ns/business-autos/:

Meanwhile, Hyundai Motor Co and its affiliate Kia Motors Corp have overtaken Japanese automakers as the benchmark for value-for-money. The Koreans have also taken advantage of a favorable exchange rate to install pricier fuel-saving technologies and other extras while Japanese brands struggle to offset the debilitating impact of a strong yen.

But yeah you're right, exchange rates are totally secondary

[dsgerbc]

^I'm fully aware of what's going on in Japan and in the auto industry. Some people just like to blame things on the exchange rate. Decision to build a factory overseas is the same as 'outsourcing' here in US. It works until it doesn't, and then you're stuck. I didn't say exchange rate isn't important at all, but it's waaaay a secondary factor (because short-term you can hedge your business from fluctuations and in the longer run other prices adjust, bringing _real_ exchange rate back in line). Exchange rate might've been a tipping factor in the linked article, but the weight of the issue alone is likely small. Transportation costs in a world of high oil prices are likely to factor a lot more into the decision. And anyone who bases long-term strategic decisions on a directional forecast of the exchange rate is stupid. Exchange rates are almost unpredictable, and the best forecast for X years into the future is where the exchange rate is today.

Exchange rate movement quickly hurt exporters when they are:
a) small and can't justify establishing financial hedges (not true for auto-manufacturers)
b) price things in export markets according to domestic price X exchange rate. Nobody in auto business does this. Most cars are "priced to market".
c) banks walk-out on pre-arranged rates. This happens, but not too often.

Over the longer run, if exchange rates persist (and hedges at old rates expire), they will bite, but the firms should have plenty of time to prepare, alter cost structure and otherwise mitigate the issue.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Nice pissing match you two. dsgerbc loves to argue.

Should we all divide into Team Dsgerbc and Team Corey?

[Corey]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

And anyone who bases long-term strategic decisions on a directional forecast of the exchange rate is stupid. Exchange rates are almost unpredictable, and the best forecast for X years into the future is where the exchange rate is today.

"We currently have a three-year plan under which we are assuming a rate of 80 yen to the dollar," Ike told a small group of reporters at Honda's headquarters in Tokyo. And under that assumption, the discussion to look for an alternative production base is inevitable." Fumihiko Ike was quoted as saying by MSNBC.

Clearly you know something that Honda does not.

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

b) price things in export markets according to domestic price X exchange rate. Nobody in auto business does this. Most cars are "priced to market".

This is exactly WHY the situation is so hard on Toyota. They are pricing their product to be competitive in the US market, despite what it costs to produce it in yen. I already posted the equivelant USD prices for the Japanese models. You should have noticed they are about 10 THOUSAND dollars in excess of the speculated US pricing. Of course it's unrealistic for Toyota to sell cars in America at price, so they won't try. However what that means is a huge cut into the car's profit margin for Toyota, and that's before you even start factoring in things like added cost of transportation to the US.


Sarcasm aside, I can give you the means to learn but I cannot force you to do it. If you would like to stay blind in your ignorance I cannot stop you, but please don't spread that filth on a public forum. Others here are interested in knowing the the facts regardless of whether or not they line up with their own preconceived notions, and may unknowingly accept your delusions as truths.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Corey

Clearly you know something that Honda does not.

Sarcasm aside, I can give you the means to learn but I cannot force you to do it. If you would like to stay blind in your ignorance I cannot stop you, but please don't spread that filth on a public forum. Others here are interested in knowing the the facts regardless of whether or not they line up with their own preconceived notions, and may unknowingly accept your delusions as truths.

Lol, an attempt at so many hurtful words. Makes me laugh somehow. PM me, I'll supply you with paypal account so that you can give me the means to learn.
Seriously though, I accept your capitulation, since I don't see any attempt to argue your point.

UPD: since you updated your post with something:

Originally Posted by Corey

You should have noticed they are about 10 THOUSAND dollars in excess of the speculated US pricing.

That's meaningless. You're not comparing producer cost, but retail prices. Those things depend on a lot of taxes, corporate and otherwise, target country demographics/demand strength and many other factors.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by fatoni

Everything from Toyota is scion in name only

The tC isn't sold anywhere else as a Toyota. the current gen xB was built with its predecessor (and Scion) in mind.

The first xB and xA were basically Japanese echos (tweaked enough for a sciond release), and I don't know enough about the iQ to comment.

[LSxJunkie]

Before we get this ball rolling, how about some credentials from the two of you. Neither of you have been citing supporting sources, so I only have the strengths of your arguments to go on, and honestly, I'm good with international trade law, but economics are not my forte.

Age.
Education.
Employment. (If you don't want to get too specific, just say the field.)

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Before we get this ball rolling, how about some credentials from the two of you. Neither of you have been citing supporting sources, so I only have the strengths of your arguments to go on, and honestly, I'm good with international trade LAW, but economics are not my forte.

Age.
Education.
Employment. (If you don't want to get too specific, just say the field.)

Meh, that's called 'pulling rank', it's less boring w/o it.

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

Before we get this ball rolling, how about some credentials from the two of you. Neither of you have been citing supporting sources, so I only have the strengths of your arguments to go on, and honestly, I'm good with international trade LAW, but economics are not my forte.

Age.
Education.
Employment. (If you don't want to get too specific, just say the field.)

Oh dear, that would just give them the opportunity to start using ad hominems

[YaX]

14 pages and going strong.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Meh, that's called 'pulling rank', it's less boring w/o it.

Not if one of you is an investment banker, a market analyst, economics professor, or some other finance professional and the other is a high school junior quoting Wikipedia and Economics for Dummies. It'd be helpful for me to figure out who is and isn't talking out of their asses.

I recently read a debate between a VFA 106 (Hornet training squadron, all models) flight instructor and a fleet F/A-18C driver on the merits of the -18C/D vs the -18E/F in basic fighter maneuvers. It got heated and there were certainly ad hominem attacks, but both parties were stunningly qualified to speak on the matter. Credibility is always an issue on the internet, and people shy away from presenting credentials in fear of either being called a liar or accused of showing off. I'd like to point you to gadflyii's post in this thread stating his experience with a plethora of cars, and one of the first reactions being one of incredulity.

Originally Posted by Capt Canuck

Oh dear, that would just give them the opportunity to start using ad hominems

This is the internet, man! Nobody here would stoop so low.

Sarcasm aside, ad hominem attacks simply betray weakness of an argument. If you can't beat someone on the merits, you can't beat them. And an educated audience will see right through that. And who are you speaking to, if not an educated audience.

[FRSDREAMER]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

The tC isn't sold anywhere else as a Toyota. the current gen xB was built with its predecessor (and Scion) in mind.

The first xB and xA were basically Japanese echos (tweaked enough for a sciond release), and I don't know enough about the iQ to comment.

The tC is sold as a Toyota in other parts of the world. It's called the Toyota Zelas.

And I stand by my claim, that 22k-23k is just right for this car. Toyota wants this car affordable, and make money.

If the FRS is 25k, I can't imagine the price for a BRZ! The limited trim would be pushing 30k!

If the FR-S is too much, than Scion/Toyota would lose sales, along with Subaru because if someone can't afford a FRS. Than it's just common sense they cannot afford a BRZ...

Please TOYOTA if you're listening make the FRS 22k-23k!!!!

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

I recently read a debate between a VFA 106 (Hornet training squadron, all models) flight instructor and a fleet F/A-18C driver on the merits of the -18C/D vs the -18E/F in basic fighter maneuvers.

That would be an interesting conversation to be part of. What did they conclude? That the F-22 would kick their butts in the end anyways?

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

I recently read a debate between a VFA 106 (Hornet training squadron, all models) flight instructor and a fleet F/A-18C driver on the merits of the -18C/D vs the -18E/F in basic fighter maneuvers. It got heated and there were certainly ad hominem attacks, but both parties were stunningly qualified to speak on the matter.

No no no.
If movies have taught me anything, US fly-boys settle things via beach volleyball.