Question for BRZ and GT-87 hps?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

That is a brilliant way to put it and I never thought about it like that as I have driven both karts and bumper cars. My RSX definitely feels like a go-kart with bumper kart performance.

I agree. I have driven or owned a decent list of "true" sports and muscle cars, including at least one example of every generation of Corvette, Camaro, Mustang and even an exotic or two. You know the car I enjoyed driving the most on the highway? My Gen 1 1985 Toyota MR2 that cost $11,000 new. Why?, because it met the exact description above. You could drive it safely on the edge in non-track conditions every day of the week.

That is the feeling I'm hoping the FR-S duplicates. If it does, there is nothing in the Mid $20K that will come close to competing with it in my view.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I agree. I have driven or owned a decent list of "true" sports and muscle cars, including at least one example of every generation of Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs and even an exotic or two. You know the car I enjoy driving the most on the highway? My Gen 1 1985 Toyota MR2 that cost $11,000 new. Why?, because it met the exact description above. You could drive it safely on the edge in non-track conditions every day of the week.

That is the feeling I'm hoping the FR-S duplicates. If it does, there is nothing in the Mid $20K that will come close to competing with it in my view.

Well said. My favorite car to drive was my 993 not because it was fast but because it was visceral, raw, and you felt like you could feel every inch of the tarmac.

[FRSDREAMER]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I agree. I have driven or owned a decent list of "true" sports and muscle cars, including at least one example of every generation of Corvette, Camaro, Mustang and even an exotic or two. You know the car I enjoyed driving the most on the highway? My Gen 1 1985 Toyota MR2 that cost $11,000 new. Why?, because it met the exact description above. You could drive it safely on the edge in non-track conditions every day of the week.

That is the feeling I'm hoping the FR-S duplicates. If it does, there is nothing in the Mid $20K that will come close to competing with it in my view.

I totally understand, but the demographic Scion is targeting too 25k might be a little steep considering what you get.

When Scion says affordable I would expect about 22k and fully loaded at about 24.5k .

That price will fit perfect in the Scion lineup.

Iq: 15k
xD: 16k
xB: 17k
tC: 19k
FRS: 22k

And i've heard a pickup truck is set to make a debut for Scion in 2014.
(Random )

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by FRSDREAMER

I totally understand, but the demographic Scion is targeting too 25k might be a little steep considering what you get.

I'm with you on the pricing, demographic or not (I'm way outside the so called Scion demographic). When I said mid 20's I was thinking up to $25K not above. Should have been more clear.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by FRSDREAMER

I totally understand, but the demographic Scion is targeting too 25k might be a little steep considering what you get.

When Scion says affordable I would expect about 22k and fully loaded at about 24.5k .

That price will fit perfect in the Scion lineup.

Iq: 15k
xD: 16k
xB: 17k
tC: 19k
FRS: 22k

And i've heard a pickup truck is set to make a debut for Scion in 2014.
(Random )

They going to take a tC and cut the back off it? El tCamino?

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Corey

You're right, the strengthening of the yen leading to Japan's inability to compete in the export market abroad is only of marginal importance. Tell the Japanese financial ministry that so they can stop worrying about the country's economic woes and get on with selling cars at a huge loss

Companies with large exports typically have pre-arranged long-term currency swap agreements with banks/financial sector. So short-term fluctuations in exchange rates don't matter. Over the long-term countries with consistently appreciating currency (if there was such a thing) would experience a slowdown in wage growth, negating the effect of nominal exchange rate. So yeah, exchange rate movements are secondary. Especially in business that's not labor intensive, such as car production.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by FRSDREAMER

I totally understand, but the demographic Scion is targeting too 25k might be a little steep considering what you get.

When Scion says affordable I would expect about 22k and fully loaded at about 24.5k .

That price will fit perfect in the Scion lineup.

Iq: 15k
xD: 16k
xB: 17k
tC: 19k
FRS: 22k

And i've heard a pickup truck is set to make a debut for Scion in 2014.
(Random )

I wouldn't put too much stock in looking at how the FRS works in scions line up. This car was a FT86 first and foremost. It wasn't until very late in the overall process that it was branded a scion. the US market is important, but this car was not designed with Scion in mind. if there is overlap with other models, or if it priced "too high for a scion" that is just a result of it being a scion in name only.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by DMDZK

I wouldn't put too much stock in looking at how the FRS works in scions line up. This car was a FT86 first and foremost. It wasn't until very late in the overall process that it was branded a scion. the US market is important, but this car was not designed with Scion in mind. if there is overlap with other models, or if it priced "too high for a scion" that is just a result of it being a scion in name only.

Everything from Toyota is scion in name only

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by FRSDREAMER

When Scion says affordable I would expect about 22k and fully loaded at about 24.5k .

i do agree that this would be a much more reasonable price and hope they can get it that low. regardless, i still stand by my point that this car doesn't NEED boost or NEED more torque just to be competitive. it would be a nice extra, but it doesn't NEED it to be a good car for the price.

[tachi1247]

Originally Posted by cyde01

i do agree that this would be a much more reasonable price and hope they can get it that low. regardless, i still stand by my point that this car doesn't NEED boost or NEED more torque just to be competitive. it would be a nice extra, but it doesn't NEED it to be a good car for the price.

The car is definitely good with what it has for the price. The only competition for this car is realisticly the genesis coupe and to a lesser extent the miata. It was definitely competitive with both of those cars during its design, but the new engine the GC definitely hurts the FRS/BRZ a little. Hopefully the lower curb weight will make up for that.

However, with more power, this car could be competitive with a greater number of cars. At 270hp & 230 ft-lb you could be compete with a 370z, and approach a mustang GT. The extra cost to put in the new WRX motor along with the necessary suspension tweaks and brake upgrade that would be required by branding if not driving necessity would also make it come in a with a grand of either of those as well (figure a limited at 27/28 + $5k).

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by tachi1247

Obviously an M3 isn't a typical family car, but if you're saying that the 2011 mustang handles as well as an M3 I wouldn't agree with you. The new mustangs definitely handle well, better than any mustang before it, but not as well as an M3.

Even the older mustangs handle better than any family sedan (of that time) which is what I had originally said. My point was that a mustang, which is undoubtedly a muscle car and all about power, still handles better than your typical family sedan. This car, which is all about handling, should still have enough power to outrun that same family sedan. It doesn't need mustang power, but a good sports car should have a balance of both handling and power.

See below.

Originally Posted by tranzformer

That is where you are wrong.


Edit:


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...m3_comparison/



[u2b]uOwSPccbzl4&hd[/u2b]

Same power, same weight, same driver, comparable tires, very similar times.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

There is no such thing as 'free market'.
...

wut. I think you mean no such thing as a "totally free and unrestricted market." But that's a newbie mistake.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

wut. I think you mean no such thing as a "totally free and unrestricted market." But that's a newbie mistake.

Define what you mean by 'free market' in application to buying cars and I'll tell you where you're assuming too much relative to how things work in the real world.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Nice pissing match you two. dsgerbc loves to argue.