OpenFlash Tablet E85 (and gasoline) Maps now available

[stevo585]

Here in Florida I've been running the american ethanol brand. Its ~78% according to some of my club members who have flex fuel fits. Could be lower out in the north and west where its colder. My car for one fires up instantly granted it rarely below 50 F. I run the Stage 2 EL 1.55 map stock car.

[Xabiss]

I really like my OFT, but I still cant figure something out. I have an automatic BRZ which I do regret purchasing now, but it is what it is. When I get to the 4K-5K range my engine makes the weirdest noise and as soon as I get to 5K it starts sounding normal again. 0K-4K also sounds normal it is just in that range. Is this normal? The engine noise is distinctively different in that one range of RPMs it is a little hard to explain. I can put the stock tune back on and that noise is gone at that range.

I always use 93 octane Shell fuel.

[Luckrider]

Originally Posted by Xabiss

I really like my OFT, but I still cant figure something out. I have an automatic BRZ which I do regret purchasing now, but it is what it is. When I get to the 4K-5K range my engine makes the weirdest noise and as soon as I get to 5K it starts sounding normal again. 0K-4K also sounds normal it is just in that range. Is this normal? The engine noise is distinctively different in that one range of RPMs it is a little hard to explain. I can put the stock tune back on and that noise is gone at that range.

I always use 93 octane Shell fuel.

This is an agressive change in the ACVS Exhaust to compensate for the torque dip with equal length headers.

[tonystewart]

Originally Posted by Luckrider

This is an agressive change in the ACVS Exhaust to compensate for the torque dip with equal length headers.

Hence my need for a Helmholtz Resonator on my Nameless Catted Front Pipe.
Tamed that particular sound

[Sonolin]

I love this car now.

[Marusich]

crickets came back when I put E85 in. Runs great though!

[stevo585]

Yeah same here never understood the "crickets" until I put in e85 lol. On regular 93 it just normal injector tick.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by nlowell

Me. I use Propel and live in San Diego. On 60 degree mornings it takes 6 or 7 sputter-failing tries to finally get a good start. My neighbors think I drive a beater...

1 gallon of 91 clears it up for the most part. I'm waiting for Shiv to incorporate the good work of the forums to fix the E85 start issues

Have you tried Pearson's Fuels on El Cajon Blvd? How is their mix compared to Propel?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

And using a gallon or 2 of 91 does totally make a difference. Then the stock Vish settings seem to work fine. However, I want to move away from 91 as much as possible because I think it introduces too much variability in the gasoline content. Also, I want to run renewable as much as possible.

Do we know why the tune has trouble starting with higher ethanol content in cold weather?

[Eric1855]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Do we know why the tune has trouble starting with higher ethanol content in cold weather?

Probably because ethanol gets very viscous when cold.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Eric1855

Probably because ethanol gets very viscous when cold.

No, it's because more ethanol content mean less density, which requires more cranking ipw. Cold air is also denser, which makes it a bit worse.

[EAGLE5]

From what I've read, below about 68 degrees F, ethanol doesn't want to vaporize. Then you add in the fact that ethanol has a massive cooling effect when it does vaporize (why it runs so nicely at high compression), you get even colder temps in the cylinder and you get too little fuel vapor to combust in a big boom. Gasoline doesn't want to vaporize as much either as it gets colder, but ethanol has a much sharper decrease in vaporization at lower temps. That's why a couple gallons of gasoline will make for easier starting in cold weather. There's more vapor to make boom.

This is not a problem with Vish's tune. His works great for the fuel he used. The Propel fuel probably has a lot lower percentage of gasoline so it doesn't match the cranking tables that worked for the fuel he used. This is also why, after running down the tank on 91 and switching to Propel, I had a single tank of easy starts. Then all of a sudden it seemed, on the second tank, starting sucked. There was a much lower percentage of gasoline.

I have done some reading on this issue. It isn't well documented online. However, I have seen some people recommending up to three times the fuel for e85 startup. It definitely depends on your car, though. What makes it even harder to deal with is that we don't have a full understanding of what each table does. There are six IPW ECT tables and four compensation tables. We don't know which one is used when and how since the Subaru and Toyota engineers aren't posting here. The RPM compensation tables aren't even populated on a stock ROM. Vish populated the RPM table and made some increases to the IPW ECT tables. What makes matters worse is that all but one of the ECT tables have multiple rows for Cranking State Number. Google is not my friend here, so I have no idea what those do. First crank? Second crank? Why the A-E? That's a lot of tables controlling cranking. If I had an exhaust sniffer, I could do a bit more figuring on all of this and maybe isolate what table does what when. On a cold start, the O2 sensor that computes lambda doesn't work. It needs to be up to temp, so it's no use.

I increased the RPM compensation tables and ECT tables quite a bit to get my cold start working on Propel fuel. However, I know it's definitely too rich because I can really smell the ethanol on startup. At least it starts strong. Unfortunately, when I applied the changes to Vish's newest 155b ROM, I got bad starts. The logic must use other aspects of the other tables he modified, so my numbers stopped working. Tonight, I'll flash a 155b ROM with more RPM compensation and ECT fueling. Hopefully that will work.

I also want to play with the A-E ECT tables and figure out which ones are being used when.

[continuecrushing]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Have you tried Pearson's Fuels on El Cajon Blvd? How is their mix compared to Propel?

I didnt notice any difference between propel vs Pearson. Well, aside from price. Pearson was/is WAY over priced. Luckily, the 76 near my place(off the 163 and convoy just opened up an e85 pump

Pearson was 3.39 per gallon for e85
76(uses propel for e85) is 3.09-3.19 per gallon


However, I don't have an ethanol % reader in my car, so my opinion might be useless lol. However, they both ran great in the car with the e85 tune

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Shutter

I didnt notice any difference between propel vs Pearson. Well, aside from price. Pearson was/is WAY over priced. Luckily, the 76 near my place(off the 163 and convoy just opened up an e85 pump

Pearson was 3.39 per gallon for e85
76(uses propel for e85) is 3.09-3.19 per gallon


However, I don't have an ethanol % reader in my car, so my opinion might be useless lol. However, they both ran great in the car with the e85 tune

If you run a couple tanks of only Propel, you might get the gasoline content down low enough to run into problems. The temp of your garage might also keep the temp from getting too cold. Socal is warmer than Norcal. They might also be different supplies. Propel sends a single truck that goes to multiple stations through the night. I know this because I spoke to a delivery guy. However, I don't know where they produce their mixtures. Heck, I don't even know if they produce anything. For all I know, they're purely a marketing and distribution company. Since all the refineries have their own ethanol and gasoline, Propel could just drive up to a Chevron distillery, buy the mix they want, and deliver it to their own pumps and tanks.