Intercooler routing layout and length

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I wouldn't say the turbo/downpipe is overly close to either of the radiator hoses, but you might as well install some nice upgraded radiator hoses from Full Blown or Perrin then at the same time. A cheap upgrade, not a reason to not use a top/front mounted turbo.

You should be running silicone rad hoses to begin with - though my point is more about the other hoses in the bay. This is less of an issue for low- or rear-mounted turbos, but something like your standard Subaru location or a front-mount turbo *will* age hoses in the engine bay at an accelerated rate.

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Hmm I see a high flo cat in my future...damn those are expensive too.

Wouldn't even risk a high-flow cat. If it ever starts to deteriorate you're going to have an expensive CHRA to repair and that's if the engine doesn't ingest any pieces. Better to not have any pre-turbo cats.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

You want a non catted header. There have been a few instances where the cat broke loose and smashed into the turbo.

The only problem is i could face a huge (price of the car) fine for having no cat up for possilibity of having the cat after the turbo, but restriction of airflow comes to mind...ugh i hate washington.

[ptuning]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

That sounds like a bad generalization. I bought a BRZ when I could have easily afforded a much more powerful "faster" Mustang GT [or other higher horsepower car]. Budget is not the only consideration when adding power. Why doesn't someone like @CSG Mike have a 500hp turbo?

No one ever said price was the only consideration, but it certainly plays a very large role. The quality of the included components WILL dictate the price of a turbo system. A Turbosmart Raceport BOV, Turbosmart 40mm V-Band Wastegate, and Garrett GT3076R with Tial SS V-Band hotside at dealer cost are more than half the price of an entry level turbo kit and that's just for three components. So yes, pricing will be a huge factor when choosing a turbo system.

It was never our intention to compete with basic entry level turbo systems. We build and market all of our turbo systems to compete with the other available premium systems. For instance, if someone actually thinks that a $500-$600 journal bearing Precision turbo will perform as well, or more importantly, be as reliable as a much more expensive Garrett GT turbo, then I've got oceanfront property in Tennessee to sell them. I can assure you too, that we've got a much, much larger pool of experience to draw from then someone who gathers their experience from being in a local car club

Again, no one forced induction system is right for everyone. There are several factors in choosing a quality system, but price will end up being one of the major factors. Unless a manufacturer decides to implement an outrageous markup on their product, you will get what you pay for.

- Toan

**BTW, the car club comment is not a jab at anybody here, just something we hear a lot at local meets, etc. Unfortunately, some people think they're experts just because they've wrenched on a few friend's cars**

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by ptuning

I've got oceanfront property in Tennessee to sell them.

Omg no way?! Is it cheap?!




Back to the seriousness, PTunings kit is put together with the sort of parts that (if taken care of properly) with the aid of an oil cooler and possibly upgraded clutch, boosted for 10+ years. that hugely depends on how the tune goes as well, so all the more stress on a good reputable tuner

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I wouldn't say the turbo/downpipe is overly close to either of the radiator hoses, but you might as well install some nice upgraded radiator hoses from Full Blown or Perrin then at the same time. A cheap upgrade, not a reason to not use a top/front mounted turbo.

the cooling issues associated with front-mount turbos have nothing to do with where the turbo is located. it has everything to do with people replacing two large, high-cfm stock fans with the little slimlines that come with most of the kits. i know this, because i live in florida and have a front-mount turbo, one stock and one spal fan, and no cooling issues. i don't even have an upgraded radiator or oil cooler.

that whole misconception got started because fbm shipped inadequate fans with their turbo kits, and they've since released products to resolve the issues.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

That sounds like a bad generalization. I bought a BRZ when I could have easily afforded a much more powerful "faster" Mustang GT [or other higher horsepower car]. Budget is not the only consideration when adding power. Why doesn't someone like @CSG Mike have a 500hp turbo?

CSG doesn't have the budget to support a car like that... otherwise we would

Originally Posted by jamesm

the cooling issues associated with front-mount turbos have nothing to do with where the turbo is located. it has everything to do with people replacing two large, high-cfm stock fans with the little slimlines that come with most of the kits. i know this, because i live in florida and have a front-mount turbo, one stock and one spal fan, and no cooling issues. i don't even have an upgraded radiator or oil cooler.

that whole misconception got started because fbm shipped inadequate fans with their turbo kits, and they've since released products to resolve the issues.

Some melted fans from radiant heat would disagree with you. If you think the SPAL fans in the particular build are lacking, we're open to suggestions for more powerful fans. The fans in question push more CFM at higher pressure than the stock fans. This car isn't using a FBM kit.

I hate to say it, but if you're not having heat issues with your front-mount turbo setup, you either are oblivious to the issues because you are not logging and/or lack the proper sensors/equipment, or are not driving the car hard at all.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by jamesm

the cooling issues associated with front-mount turbos have nothing to do with where the turbo is located. it has everything to do with people replacing two large, high-cfm stock fans with the little slimlines that come with most of the kits. i know this, because i live in florida and have a front-mount turbo, one stock and one spal fan, and no cooling issues. i don't even have an upgraded radiator or oil cooler.

that whole misconception got started because fbm shipped inadequate fans with their turbo kits, and they've since released products to resolve the issues.

Nobody in this thread was talking about cooling issues. Not sure why you quoted me where we were talking about deteriorating rubber radiator hoses?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

CSG doesn't have the budget to support a car like that... otherwise we would



Some melted fans from radiant heat would disagree with you. If you think the SPAL fans in the particular build are lacking, we're open to suggestions for more powerful fans. The fans in question push more CFM at higher pressure than the stock fans. This car isn't using a FBM kit.

I hate to say it, but if you're not having heat issues with your front-mount turbo setup, you either are oblivious to the issues because you are not logging and/or lack the proper sensors/equipment, or are not driving the car hard at all.

yeah i don't. i just drive the car like it's... a car. normal stuff.. no johnny racecar driver here. i mean i get it on getting onto on-ramps and what not, but i'm not trying to race anyone to the grocery store.

and yes i am logging. constantly lol. the coolant temps behave literally exactly the same as before the turbo... stays around 180-190 moving... when i stop it goes up until the fans kick on then hovers back and forth turning them on and off.

the fbm kit doesn't come with spal fans. i wasn't even referring to this kit at all, just saying front mounts got a bad rap because of the cooling issues associated with that one particular kit.

my fans are not melted.

if you wanna see logs of temperature, you can checkout my revworks turbo kit initial review thread, where you'll see exactly what i just described. i'll even go grab some new ones for you if you like.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jamesm

yeah i don't. i just drive the car like it's... a car. normal stuff.. no johnny racecar driver here. i mean i get it on getting onto on-ramps and what not, but i'm not trying to race anyone to the grocery store.

and yes i am logging. constantly lol. the coolant temps behave literally exactly the same as before the turbo... stays around 180-190 moving... when i stop it goes up until the fans kick on then hovers back and forth turning them on and off.

the fbm kit doesn't come with spal fans. i wasn't even referring to this kit at all, just saying front mounts got a bad rap because of the cooling issues associated with that one particular kit.

my fans are not melted.

if you wanna see logs of temperature, you can checkout my revworks turbo kit initial review thread, where you'll see exactly what i just described. i'll even go grab some new ones for you if you like.

Have you ever logged oil temps?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Have you ever logged oil temps?

yes. every day. literally. they climb up to around 230 and stay put. exactly as they did before the turbo was installed. you can scroll down about half a page to the thread i referenced and see this. if you like i would be more than happy to go grab a brand new one of whatever you want... it's just cold enough around here now that it's probably not as useful as the one i posted before in the summer when it was crazy ass hot outside.

i was worried about this after seeing the early adopters have issues and made a point of keeping track of before/after. there has been literally no discernible change in behavior whatsoever. if there was i would be happy to share that, but it just didn't happen.

stock fan(s) ftw.

EDIT: actually i was wrong... my other fan (not the stock one) isn't even a spal... it's one of those cheap chinese 60w ones. looking at that next to the stock one it's not hard to determine why having two of the 60w ones might cause considerable cooling issues.

[cdrazic93]

Omg...was james actually wrong?!

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Omg...was james actually wrong?!

Time and date noted. I really think it is less about the cheap 60w fan and more about the width limitation and shrouding. The OEM fans and shroud ensure that every sq ft of the radiator has air being pulled through it while mounting these cheap round fans directly to the radiator with zip ties and no shroud doesn't. The OEM fans are able to utilize much larger fan blades due to the width of the setup as well.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by ptuning

I write this, because some of the newer members of the forum may not be putting 2 and 2 together and realizing this. You can't have your cake and eat it too. There are only so many ways to route intercooler piping on this vehicle. Take it for what's it's worth, but just make sure you understand why very well known turbo system manufacturers do what they do when putting together a turbo system. Also, you get what you pay for, but it's in the finer details. For instance, you can't compare a turbo system with a $1,500 turbocharger to one that uses a $500 turbocharger.
- Toan

I'll just cut to the chase, would it be possible to substitute the GT30 for a GTX3576 or 82? I know I could after I buy the kit, but can it be an option to come with the kit?

Another reason why I love the PTuning kit, I don't have to worry about this radiator drama! Hopefully...

What makes a Garret turbo only $1,500 vs an HKS turbo or Greddy turbo require almost twice the price for? are HKS and Greddy any better than Garret, or is the added cost just paying for a name? (Essentially comparing a $1,500 turbo to a $2,500-$3,200 turbo)

[Jesse@JDLAutodesign]

Hks is just rebadged garrett units. i believe greddy is switching to garrett too. they do have their own bousings cast but its usually odd ball stuff.