Now Available: OpenFlash Tablet Datalogging/Datagraphing (BETA Release)

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Thanks. I wonder where @shiv@vishnu is on this topic...

So there is no logging for engine load, commanded AFR, FLKC, throttle, accelerator, coolant, oil, MAP, VVT Exhaust, or other bits I would use when actually tuning? These aren't "required" for tuning but make my life a hell of a lot easier than guessing. Having to calculate engine load by hand would be irritating.

I originally contacted offering to help with data logging a while back but was not getting much of a reply other than "talk to so and so" which just went in circles.

Can anybody confirm for me that the only log results are:

Currently you can log the following on oft.
Time[s]:
Engine Speed:
Throttle:
MAF Voltage:
Engine Load:
VVT Intake:
VVT Exhaust:
Ignition Advance:
KC Learned Value:
AFR:
ST Fuel Trim:
LT Fuel Trim:
Adv Multiplier:

[jamesm]

there are some very important ones missing, but i'm sure they'll be added in time. what's there now isn't really sufficient for the purpose of tuning.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by jamesm

there are some very important ones missing, but i'm sure they'll be added in time. what's there now isn't really sufficient for the purpose of tuning.

Yeah... Personally there are more things I want. And have heard "Soon". I have been falling behind on this and the open source stuff. Not to throw this off topic but have the open source guys gotten something usable working now? Or still heavy in testing phases?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Yeah... Personally there are more things I want. And have heard "Soon". I have been falling behind on this and the open source stuff. Not to throw this off topic but have the open source guys gotten something usable working now? Or still heavy in testing phases?

not what i'd call 'useable' at this point. last i heard they were still figuring out parameter locations and there was still no support in romraider's logger, only direct to sd card in the cable. i could have out of date info though.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Thanks. I wonder where @shiv@vishnu is on this topic...

So there is no logging for engine load, commanded AFR, FLKC, throttle, accelerator, coolant, oil, MAP, VVT Exhaust, or other bits I would use when actually tuning? These aren't "required" for tuning but make my life a hell of a lot easier than guessing. Having to calculate engine load by hand would be irritating.

I originally contacted offering to help with data logging a while back but was not getting much of a reply other than "talk to so and so" which just went in circles.

Can anybody confirm for me that the only log results are:

The channels the OFT currently logs is just the bare minimum required for tuning (as per the list that FRSDuke provided). The framework of the data logging interface is in the process of being updated to allow for the user to log/monitor/graph on-screen up to 12 channels out of a selection of 30-40 channels (at ~15 samples per second). We hope to have that up and running within the next few weeks. I don't like giving ETAs because that is only one of the updates we are working on now.

Cheers,
shiv

[Shad0ez]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

Yeah... Personally there are more things I want. And have heard "Soon". I have been falling behind on this and the open source stuff. Not to throw this off topic but have the open source guys gotten something usable working now? Or still heavy in testing phases?

Out of curiosity, what other values are missing that should be noted when properly tuning? Every opportunity I get I'm trying to pick on how to read data logs to see how the engine is handling the given tune. Once I have a good grasp on where values should be and am able to point out abnormalities I may venture into editing maps, but I'm not quite there yet. @jamesm thanks for posting the screen casts. I'm sure many of us find them informative and appreciate you taking the time to put them up.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The channels the OFT currently logs is just the bare minimum required for tuning (as per the list that FRSDuke provided). The framework of the data logging interface is in the process of being updated to allow for the user to log/monitor/graph on-screen up to 12 channels out of a selection of 30-40 channels (at ~15 samples per second). We hope to have that up and running within the next few weeks. I don't like giving ETAs because that is only one of the updates we are working on now.

Cheers,
shiv

On screen is cool and all, and useful but all I personally care about is having them on my computer, where i am actually editing the tune. When I am tuning I don't have to look at a second little screen for data i already have one in the laptop. Are there any plans for your device to support J2534 to go along with the other "open" stuff? Or is it going to stick mainly as a handheld device for basic flashing with no direct ecu communication with a laptop? Sounds like extra work on my end for logging personally.

[jamesm]

a few crucial ones i can think off-hand are:

injection time port/direct final
fbkc
flkc (maybe that's knock correction learned value?)
fuel system status
map sensor
intake air temp
throttle delta (useful for tip-in enrichment tuning, not crucual though)

intake air temp and map are most important as they are necessary for calculating things like ve and fueling error. knock parameters are of course very important as well.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

On screen is cool and all, and useful but all I personally care about is having them on my computer, where i am actually editing the tune. When I am tuning I don't have to look at a second little screen for data i already have one in the laptop. Are there any plans for your device to support J2534 to go along with the other "open" stuff? Or is it going to stick mainly as a handheld device for basic flashing with no direct ecu communication with a laptop? Sounds like extra work on my end for logging personally.

You can export the datalog file from the OFT to your laptop in OpenFlash Manager. It less than 3 seconds to download a 100k datalog file (.csv) and can store a hours worth of data (12 channels logging at ~15hz). At that point you can view it in our datalog viewing software, on datazap, in Excel, etc,. Do you have an OFT?

We don't have any immediate plans for direct ECU-to-laptop communication (i.e., OFT connecting to both the ECU and the Laptop at the same time). It's not been a popular request but I suppose anything is possible with enough time.

Shiv

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by nelsmar

On screen is cool and all, and useful but all I personally care about is having them on my computer, where i am actually editing the tune. When I am tuning I don't have to look at a second little screen for data i already have one in the laptop. Are there any plans for your device to support J2534 to go along with the other "open" stuff? Or is it going to stick mainly as a handheld device for basic flashing with no direct ecu communication with a laptop? Sounds like extra work on my end for logging personally.

with oft you'd log everything to csv then open the files on your computer. i'm pretty sure it can store a sufficient amount of data. given the transferring back and forth would be a bit of a pain, it's workable, very similar to using a tactrix cable to log.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by Shad0ez

Out of curiosity, what other values are missing that should be noted when properly tuning? Every opportunity I get I'm trying to pick on how to read data logs to see how the engine is handling the given tune. Once I have a good grasp on where values should be and am able to point out abnormalities I may venture into editing maps, but I'm not quite there yet. @jamesm thanks for posting the screen casts. I'm sure many of us find them informative and appreciate you taking the time to put them up.

FLKC for one is something i highly desire. MAP input is something I would need for anything higher horsepower, this is considering if the open source community does get SD up and going somewhat soon. But there are still benefits to this.

I use Commanded AFR quite a bit, just makes life easy to see how far maf scaling is off. Also is there any support for a wideband? The stock wideband is great and all but having to combine the log files my self is annoying. I would rather the hardware log it for me, or software or however the "package" works. Sure I can just log wideband & RPM and then look over it while on the dyno, that works fine but it is handy to actually have this in one log file together. Especially when street tuning vs opening two files and viewing them independently.

I could go down a long list of additional things I would want like throttle delta, PI duty, total ML injection, port time, and DI time. Its nice to be able to do the math and ballpark where you are on injector duty. There are tons of things that can be used in a number of scenarios. Hell getting CPS Voltage would even work as a rugged hack for wideband logging if it was available.

Oil temp can help to diagnose issues, as well as coolant temp, the list goes on.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You can export the datalog file from the OFT to your laptop in OpenFlash Manager. It less than 3 seconds to download a 100k datalog file (.csv) and can store a hours worth of data (12 channels logging at ~15hz). At that point you can view it in our datalog viewing software, on datazap, in Excel, etc,. Do you have an OFT?

We don't have any immediate plans for direct ECU-to-laptop communication (i.e., OFT connecting to both the ECU and the Laptop at the same time). It's not been a popular request but I suppose anything is possible with enough time.

Shiv

I do not but a number of locals have contacted me about tuning on OFT and I said I would research what tools were available with its package. Looks like at this point it isn't up to par to what I am wanting for actual tuning. For being a flasher like cobb it seems like a great device for OTS maps etc and some basic tweaking but really is lacking in the datalogging & extra work required for datalogging if i am going to have to transfer logs back and forth like that. Not having live editing alone is already a massive hassle. We calculated the time I have spent flashing a local car during extensive testing and we are almost to 7hrs just waiting for the ecu to flash at this point.

Originally Posted by jamesm

with oft you'd log everything to csv then open the files on your computer. i'm pretty sure it can store a sufficient amount of data. given the transferring back and forth would be a bit of a pain, it's workable, very similar to using a tactrix cable to log.

This is exactly my view as well. Sounds like a great device for minor work but for heavier work it might not be what I am looking for.

[Shiv@Openflash]

Originally Posted by jamesm

a few crucial ones i can think off-hand are:

injection time port/direct final
fbkc
flkc (maybe that's knock correction learned value?)
fuel system status
map sensor
intake air temp
throttle delta (useful for tip-in enrichment tuning, not crucual though)

intake air temp and map are most important as they are necessary for calculating things like ve and fueling error. knock parameters are of course very important as well.

In the next OFT datalogging update, all of those (among others) will be added to the list of available channels. As well as a screen dedicated to the Fine Learning knock correction matrix.

Cheers
shiv

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

In the next OFT datalogging update, all of those (among others) will be added to the list of available channels. As well as a screen dedicated to the Fine Learning knock correction matrix.

Cheers
shiv

good call on the matrix view... very useful thing i miss from brzedit