Kraftwerks Rotrex Supercharger Discussion

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by Calum

I don't know how a cogged belt would react to the cyclical compression of the cogs caused by being under tension while running over a smooth faced pulley. My thought is that the belt wouldn't like it at all, which would either diminish the belts life, or require cogged idler pulleys.

Two pulleys would still satisfy that best practice, would it not? My thought is that there would be two pulleys on either side of the compressor, but lower instead of above the compressor pulley.

I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just trying to expand on my earlier post to ensure I wasn't misunderstood. I posted my idea expecting to be told it wouldn't work, I'm just not sure why it wouldn't work.

1) for the record, according to Gates (the manufacturer of the cogged belt) it is ABSOLUTELY ok to run the belt on smooth idler pulley.

2) before critiquing the layout to heavily, please realize the cad model does not offer much insight as to the placement of the support brackets or parts protruding form the engine. also note....the reason for the double sided belt is because the supercharger is flipped around therefore we need to reverse the rotation by driving it using the outside of the belt...if rotrex had a counterclockwise offering, we could use a single sided belt and simplify the layout further....given these considerations, i think the layout is well thought out, simple, and elegant.

3) i do not understand your proposed layout, can you elaborate some more? a simple sketch for discussion purposes would be nice too

[imom]

Originally Posted by Calum

All of those prices are close enough that it's not going to be a factor in my purchase. If you're worried about a couple hundrend bucks on a purchase this big, I think you should save your money for something more important.

Originally Posted by gmsii

imom-
anyways...at this point, i am really not clear what you are asking KW to do. we have offered a significant discount to entice people to be early adopters. after the first wave of kits is released, we believe people will recognize the value and performance we are bringing to the table; and the kit will stack up just fine against other kits. if we need to adjust the price in the future, we will. In the meantime, its already been adjusted, so there is nothing else for us to do.

Same response to both comments. If KW left it at the $3695 base kit price, it would make it a very attractive especially if there is a good upgrade path. I'm not too knowledgeable on what's a better FI whether it's Rotrex from KW/JR or the one from Vortech... but $600 off versus the competition will be a big positive...if Rotrex is "the" supercharger to get, then KW will really get more market share and the more people who use this kit, the more this kit will become reliable as the bugs will get worked out.

Right now I'm leaning towards Vortech because it's been out for quite some time and it's now CARB approved. Though Vortech's kit fitment didn't seems as nice.

I see the double sided gear belt... how reliable is that design? Would a single sided gear belt design be less prone to deteriorating or less friction/efficient? I'm asking from a learning standpoint.

I'm a potential customer... when the kit will come out...what are the facts that will sway me to KW FI kit.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by imom

Same response to both comments. If KW left it at the $3695 base kit price, it would make it a very attractive especially if there is a good upgrade path. I'm not too knowledgeable on what's a better FI whether it's Rotrex from KW/JR or the one from Vortech... but $600 off versus the competition will be a big positive...if Rotrex is "the" supercharger to get, then KW will really get more market share and the more people who use this kit, the more this kit will become reliable as the bugs will get worked out.

Right now I'm leaning towards Vortech because it's been out for quite some time and it's now CARB approved. Though Vortech's kit fitment didn't seems as nice.

I see the double sided gear belt... how reliable is that design? Would a single sided gear belt design be less prone to deteriorating or less friction/efficient? I'm asking from a learning standpoint.

I'm a potential customer... when the kit will come out...what are the facts that will sway me to KW FI kit.

1) again your sales and marketing advise is duly noted. as of right now the special pricing is $600 off...we will reserve the option to reduce the retail pricing in the future if necessary.

2) CARB approval for our kits begins immediately after the launch of the product and we can deliver the car to the lab. our tuner, who is also the tuner for two other sc kits in the approval process, sees our kit passing easily with no problem....also, note that once approved the CARB EO will apply to kits sold prior to approval...we will just send you the sticker

3) the specs on the Gates double sided belts are plenty durable. should you have any specific belt design questions you should probably direct them to the engineering staff at Gates.

4) the features and benefits of the kit are discussed all over this thread. the KW flyer posted gives a nice high level over view. but if i was to summarize for you i would point out A)independent drive system B)upgradeable to a blower that can (technically) move enough air to support 650+hp C) simple and efficient large sized tubing layout D) use of the high rpm Rotrex supercharger that is very efficient, runs very quiet and cool

i think it would be best for you to be patient and wait another two months as more and more reviews come in

[imom]

Originally Posted by gmsii

3) the specs on the Gates double sided belts are plenty durable. should you have any specific belt design questions you should probably direct them to the engineering staff at Gates.

4) the features and benefits of the kit are discussed all over this thread. the KW flyer posted gives a nice high level over view. but if i was to summarize for you i would point out A)independent drive system B)upgradeable to a blower that can (technically) move enough air to support 650+hp C) simple and efficient large sized tubing layout D) use of the high rpm Rotrex supercharger that is very efficient, runs very quiet and cool

i think it would be best for you to be patient and wait another two months as more and more reviews come in

I have zero experience or knowledge about FI belt design hence my curiosity. I'm not sure if telling me to go to Gates is a good answer. KW is using this part as the belt system... would be great to know how many designs KW have used double sided belt system or how many known systems other FI companies are using double sided belt system? It's about reliability.

Far as the flyer goes, I've gone through this thread post by post including the flyer that you were kind enough to post on a few threads. To clarify, I was referencing when the kit is released and to show the dyno WHP numbers, what size pulley, what kind of PSI output. I don't care about 650+ hp since I don't track. 250 to 300 WHP+ is more than enough. You can't really be responsibly driving more as a daily driver...part time track car sure more power is welcome...but for me reliability from 6 to 9 PSI with pump gas daily driver car.

Looking forward to the release of KW's FI kit for this platform.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by gmsii

1) for the record, according to Gates (the manufacturer of the cogged belt) it is ABSOLUTELY ok to run the belt on smooth idler pulley.

2) before critiquing the layout to heavily, please realize the cad model does not offer much insight as to the placement of the support brackets or parts protruding form the engine. also note....the reason for the double sided belt is because the supercharger is flipped around therefore we need to reverse the rotation by driving it using the outside of the belt...if rotrex had a counterclockwise offering, we could use a single sided belt and simplify the layout further....given these considerations, i think the layout is well thought out, simple, and elegant.

3) i do not understand your proposed layout, can you elaborate some more? a simple sketch for discussion purposes would be nice too

I forgot that rotrex doesn't offer counter clockwise SC. Thanks fir clearing this up.

Edit, damn phone auto corrected rotrex to vortex.

[KraftWerks]

Did someone say they couldn't find the current flyer with the crazy limited promotion?
If you can read it here, check us out on Facebook (Kraftwerks Performance Group) or on our website at Kraftwerksusa dot com.

[FirestormFRS]

What is it that prevents this from being installed on AT cars?

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by FirestormFRS

What is it that prevents this from being installed on AT cars?

someone trying it first.
any volunteers? ping me

[digital_assassin]

Should be in the 1 month window to ship out the kits!

@KraftWerks - can you provide an update on anticipated shipping date at this time? Any other updates for us??

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by digital_assassin

Should be in the 1 month window to ship out the kits!

@KraftWerks - can you provide an update on anticipated shipping date at this time? Any other updates for us??

Nice. Can't wait to see your build especially since you're outside of the California emission laws.

[ramiram1984]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

I completely agree. Part of it has to do with simplicity, part of it has to do with not looking like it's been modified. The better the packaging I feel the less f**king with it I'll have to do. I've yet to open my hood other than to do it's first oil change and I hope to open it as little as possible once modified (other than normal fluid checks, of course. My MR2 gets its engine lid opened weekly to fiddle with things; it's a PITA).

The Vortech kit looks nice and clean. The Innovate kit looks nice and clean. The AVO kit looks nice and clean. The P&L, Full Blown and FA20CLUB kits look OK but I'm not in love with their turbo placement. Kraftwerks has me wary of their separate pulley system, and Jackson Racing has me a little put off by the "I pieced this together in my garage" look to it. I'm sure they'll both be reliable and make power, because they've been in the game a long time and built some serious cars. But dayum are they ugly!

If you've ever seen other JRSCs on other cars (miata, for example) their kits look pretty much the same. Appearance-wise.
I used to sell JRSCs back in the day.

[*KID*]

Nice kit. and great numbers.

[grostoine]

Originally Posted by gmsii

here you go:

Does the pulley is over crank pulley? I'm concern if it will fit with my P&L headers...

[grostoine]

hello?