"gah FRS/BRZ are so slow, if only they had like 50 more hp"

[dsgerbc]

"Just a bit more and I'd be happy". Pay $$, lose warranty. "Just a tiny bit more". Pay $$$. Etc.
In the end, one ends up with a car that's not DD-friendly, not fun at street-legal speeds anymore, not worth more than stock, and has no warranty. Only aftermarket is happy to keep your $$$$.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by Ben_G

No, because it's true. My benchmark? I need to rev it waaay more than should be necessary to keep up with.......................................my wife's Echo at a stoplight.

you're doing something very wrong

[Nevermore]

I don't have a problem with the car's power, it's the most powerful car I've driven/owned so it's plenty for me. Though I am kind of curious about the torque number, purely from an observation standpoint. I've noticed older cars, with smaller engines/less HP with more torque than our cars. I've seen some where the torque and HP numbers were the same, and some where the torque number was higher. I'm a pretty big noob when it comes to engines, but I've always wonder why our 200HP engine had such "low" torque by comparison.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

I don't have a problem with the car's power, it's the most powerful car I've driven/owned so it's plenty for me. Though I am kind of curious about the torque number, purely from an observation standpoint. I've noticed older cars, with smaller engines/less HP with more torque than our cars. I've seen some where the torque and HP numbers were the same, and some where the torque number was higher. I'm a pretty big noob when it comes to engines, but I've always wonder why our 200HP engine had such "low" torque by comparison.

Generally, large engines have more torque, small engines have less torque (I'm ignoring forced induction here, since it complicates matters significantly). The FA20 is a pretty small engine. Horsepower on the other hand is a combination of torque and rpm - if two engines make the same torque, but one makes it at 3500rpm and one at 7k, the one that makes it at 7k will have twice the horsepower. The FA20 revs fairly high, so it makes a fair amount of horsepower despite the low torque. You'll notice that most of the highest-performance naturally aspirated engines are similar - the Porsche 911 GT3 for example makes 475hp from a 3.8L engine that revs to 9krpm. However, it only makes 325 pound feet (if I remember right) of torque.

Older engines were less efficient and unable to rev quite as high, so to make the same amount of power, they were larger and torqueier.

[ZXTT95]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

I don't have a problem with the car's power, it's the most powerful car I've driven/owned so it's plenty for me. Though I am kind of curious about the torque number, purely from an observation standpoint. I've noticed older cars, with smaller engines/less HP with more torque than our cars. I've seen some where the torque and HP numbers were the same, and some where the torque number was higher. I'm a pretty big noob when it comes to engines, but I've always wonder why our 200HP engine had such "low" torque by comparison.

Because that's roughly the amount of torque you get from 2.0 without FI. You can raise the HP by using a higher performance head, raising the redline, more bore less stroke, and overall designing it to maintain decent torque further up the rev range.

[R.S-HawK]

Not that I have any complaints, but:

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think what people perceive is the lack of midrange torque. What they really want is about 20-30 more lb-ft through the midrange, not 50 peak hp.

Remember people complained to no end about the S2000, which had 240 hp (but the powerband was even more high up at 6-9k rpm).

Most of this can be fixed by driving technique (i.e., keep this engine above 4500 rpm), but not everyone knows or is willing to drive like that.

QFT.

[Atticus808]

Originally Posted by Demandred7

I had the opportunity to ride with a professional racer last month in an FR-S and c) definitely has a lot to do with it. The car was bone stock and an auto to boot. We were keeping up with a Nissan 370 and a GT-R in the twisties at Cayuga Raceway and it was only in the straightaways that they pulled away hard. I definitely came away with the feeling of "holy crap! Our cars can do that?!".

did the GTR have a good driver?

[Obja]

I just don't see what peoples problem is, they say things about this cars HP like the people buying it were unaware...

we know, thanks... it's a decision we decided to make

[frs10]

Originally Posted by Tien

Sir you are really negative. IMO when you have a car that looks as badass as the GT86 maybe a little more low end and mid range would match the look. I love my car it does everything well but it lacks some grunt.

negative? the way the car looks and performs are two DIFFERENT things... if u want a car that looks good but doesnt perform up to ur standard you bought the wrong car...

[Scaldy]

I know it's a SMALL gain buuut...

Adding the TRD exhaust and Cold air intake does help with the low end torque. Some one jacked about this combo will start throwing around the 20hp number. But to be honest it's more like 5-10hp if you're lucky.

[Rayme]

The FR-S is the Ninja 250R of sports cars. Nobody is saying it's fast, just fun to drive.

[roddy]

People who think this car is too slow probably haven't driven many cars built between the mid 70s and the mid 80s. That was THE dark age for performance cars. This car would hand a stock mid 70s/early 80s Corvette its ass in a drag race (or on a road course for that matter). It's all relative.

[Ben_G]

Originally Posted by SkAsphalt

you're doing something very wrong

LOL....No, i'm doing everything right.... but it just feels wrong that the Echo seems to go effortlessly and I need to work for the speed in the BRZ/FRS....

But all the torque talk here is right on..... nothing a supercharger can't fix....=)

[hamzam]

FACT: I leave for work 30 minutes before I could, just so I can drive the 86 as it was meant to be driven.

I don't have to put up with stop and go traffic. This car wasn't meant to do that!

I also have the opportunity to enjoy some twisties for a few miles... Just me and the rising sun, not a soul on the road.

I get to work, park my car, and actually have time to walk to Dunkin' Donuts, sit down, have a coffee, all the while staring at my ride that I chose not giving a damn about the haters.

If you like stop and go traffic, wait for an autonomous car and enjoy the ride.

If you like this car... I'll see you on the backroads

FACT: My 86 is my motivation.