Kraftwerks Rotrex Supercharger Discussion

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Lol if you learn to read before you post you'd see that all that maths have supported the kraftworx.

Fyi if we were comparing the 9psi to 9 psi, as it currently stands the vortech blows it out of the water... As my build shows. It's not the forums fault that they are using some rarity of a dyno that not even the Europeans use, in fact it's not even listed under the wiki page.

its still not really apples to apples, despite borla's shitty collector its still going to be better than the factory catted header that kraftwerks used in testing on pump gas (no cat restrictions). it would have been more fair if they had used the skunk2 header for pump gas as well. as well as optimizing the tune, for all we know these are just base maps that come with the kit.

that said, as it stands you are correct that the vortech has higher numbers right now. i just wanna see pump gas dynos of a C38-71 at 10psi

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

The near 300 whp run was with 93 pumpgas.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41285

Just curious, has anyone been able to replicate that kind of torque curve? Looks beast! I think @Adeets got close no?

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by elopez

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=118

repeat, get one your vortech kits out there to kraftwerks and end this nonsense. otherwise, these comparisons are pointless.

nevermind, keeping thread on topic

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by elopez

just tired of you vortech fanboys hanging out in this thread trying to prove your "vortech manhood", that's all...

I have three posts in here, one was about a JRSC on a K series engine, the other was asking about the compressor map conversions, and the last post was stating that the 300whp dyno was on e85 and how I like when dynos are shown with 93 octane.

Not sure how that makes me a fanboy
IMO there are more anti-vortech people than those claiming the vortech is the best thing ever since cam phasing

Most of the people in here are interested in the potential of the kit and how it will stack up with ALL other forms of FI.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by Adeets

You could compare my 92tune to their e85 tune, something something 285hp@9psi, that was done with header and exhaust. Just note they use some obscure dyno that doesn't show up on wiki. Wish they would use a dynojet or mustang... You know, like pretty much all other company's selling shit for our cars.

i've heard of roto-test dynos before, they are pretty rare but we had one up in the area i'm originally from. it read about 15% lower than the dyno-jet. for example i made 440whp in my s2k on a dyno-jet, the same day i made 374 on the Roto-test, wish i had my dyno-sheets still. sold the car and gave the dyno's away with it.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by elopez

^^^

here's some math for you all:

fa20club vortech dyno = 292.04 - 15% = 248.23
adeets vortech dyno = 274.76 - 15% = 233.54

agreed, math is the the ultimate language.

Why are you subtracting 15% from wheel horsepower

[digital_assassin]

I can't find much of anything about the Roto-Test dyno to know if it reads high, low, whatever. My sole reasons for springing on this kit without additional testing is simply:

A) Rotrex has had great results on other platforms so with proper tune and supporting mods the numbers should come in just fine.

B) The piping of this kit is very well laid out IMO. I'm a less is more kind of guy and this layout just appeals to me, except the oil cooler add on. Gonna be a PITA to get at that oil cap.

C) Off set charger on separate belt means I can always limp the car home if the belt breaks.

I appreciate all the posts from the people breaking down the math and throwing out the hypotheticals because the math is usually going to come pretty close and I'm not the type that would sit down and do all that stuff myself. Information is good to have. You can use it or ignore it. Without people doing this type of discussion the thread would just be stagnant until the kit was released and there's more real world results for cars with different configurations performed on different dynos available.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Is it like a mustang drive up, or is it one where you have to take your wheels off... I always thought OEM uses flywheel dynos, where the engine is actually dyno'd outside of the car.

its a much more complicated looking dyna-pak. Oem's use flywheel dynos for engine development but they also have chassis dyno's to test drivetrain loss and develop more efficiency that way.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by elopez

^^^

here's some math for you all:

fa20club vortech dyno = 292.04 - 15% = 248.23
adeets vortech dyno = 274.76 - 15% = 233.54

agreed, math is the the ultimate language.

this guy.. any dyno can read high or low, it really depends on the settings so either of those dynos could produce the same number depending a variety of conditions and factors, temp, pressure, humidity etc. its hard to do dyno leveling this way, quite frankly its wrong and way too basic. it was an example, either of the dyno's in the reference you made could read lower than both dynos i have used, who knows..

[pheoxs]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

this guy.. any dyno can read high or low, it really depends on the settings so either of those dynos could produce the same number depending a variety of conditions and factors, temp, pressure, humidity etc. its hard to do dyno leveling this way, quite frankly its wrong and way too basic.

It's funny because every person will tell you their dyno reads low. I've never once heard someone say my dyno reads perfect or high. It's always a heartbreaker dyno or x% lower than other dynos

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by pheoxs

It's funny because every person will tell you their dyno reads low. I've never once heard someone say my dyno reads perfect or high. It's always a heartbreaker dyno or x% lower than other dynos

that is so true, the guy with the dyno jet said it was a heartbreaker, it reads lowish for the turbo i was running (PTE6262 should be ~470 at the boost i was running), and so did the shop with the roto-test (definitely read low for what i was expecting). it all depends on the software and conditions.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Is it like a mustang drive up, or is it one where you have to take your wheels off... I always thought OEM uses flywheel dynos, where the engine is actually dyno'd outside of the car.

It's a hub dyno. I don't know of any OEM's that use them. Perhaps some race teams, but not the big ones.

[gmsii]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

It's a hub dyno. I don't know of any OEM's that use them. Perhaps some race teams, but not the big ones.

unless one is well initiated in the dyno market space, one wouldnt really know much of anything regarding what OEs are or arent using.

Rototest is quite commonly used by OE's who use it for development and validation testing in conjuction with their engine dyno test rigs.

To quote Rototest...'The Rototest HUBDYNO® is arguably the most advanced chassis dynamometer in the world of motorsports, and is used by companies like Adam Opel, DE, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), DE, Daeki Faurecia, Dongwon Precision, KR, EMCON (ArvinMeritor), CN, FIAT Auto, IT, GKN Technology, UK, General Motors, SA, SAAB Powertrain, SE, KIA Motors, KR and MAHLE Powertrain (Cosworth Technology), UK and Andretti Green Racing, US.'

There are several NASCAR cup teams, ALMS teams, and Indycar teams that are using the dyno, but Rototest is not able to reveal because of NDA agreements in place. At Group-A we are privy to this information because US distributor for the motorsports dyno.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by gmsii

unless one is well initiated in the dyno market space, one wouldnt really know much of anything regarding what OEs are or arent using..

I work at a major OE powertrain R&D facility. Does that qualify me? We have hundreds of dyno cells.