FR-S Vs. Camaro (Decisons...decisions)

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by thill

When people say the Camaro handles like a boat, they weren't joking:

Time to go motorboating!!!!!

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Meehow86

I know, but I was looking for a reasonable explanation. Considering the terrible state GM was already in its kind of stretch.

Where can I find the forum rules though? All I've ever come across was this, which makes no mention of what can and can't be posted, aside from the obvious.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Actually, here are the real forum rules:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/announcement.php?f=2

But I do owe you an apology, nothing there about politics. Worst I could say is "off topic." So, for what its worth, my bad!

[regal]

I was once a twenty something engineer working at GM. Wonderful place to learn. That said you aren't going to have time for mods or much of anything. This generation camero is well not really a pony car, it is so big and heavy. The good camero generations were allot of a budget corvette, a sports car. The camero is not a sports car at all. The next gen should be much better.

That said you want to drive a GM or UAW product to work. At your age have you considered a 1.4L turbo Sonic. Their most innovative power train for $16k can't beat it.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Interesting, never seen those pics. The one on top looks like a 135i and the one on bottom looks like a mini-Gallardo.

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by Razz

They need to reintroduce their sports car that Obama killed.

They raced it in GT class and did well.

Have you actually driven one of these?

Folks have had a solstice gxp for a number of years now.

On paper (260ish hp rwd toy) despite the curb weight it would seem to be a hell of a car.

Once sitting in it you start to think that possibly this car is the embodiment of the horseshit production that led to the auto bailouts. After a short drive you have no doubts this car should be placed next to the sebring in terms of symbols of the bailout.

It is a fantastic car to look at, it is a horrible car to actually use. About once or twice a year I think it would be a good time and take for the day, this year was with the gf. Even she agreed it was terrible, this is someone who went from an olsmobile alero to a tdi golf. It gets even worse when you try actually use the car for anything. She wants to leave purse in car, well lets try cram it in next to the top in the back. Milk was a similar dilemma.

Yes, its rwd, yup, plenty of power and tuning potential, low, has what look to be blistiens, decent summer rubber on 18" wheels. On paper, it really should be a fantastic car. But none of that makes up for how awful it is to live with on anything other than a limited use basis, the mediocre steering feel is pretty much the final nail in the coffin.

Driving a twin really makes you realize just how hard gm failed on that car as an overall package.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by utekineir

Have you actually driven one of these?

...

Yes, its rwd, yup, plenty of power and tuning potential, low, has what look to be blistiens, decent summer rubber on 18" wheels. On paper, it really should be a fantastic car. But none of that makes up for how awful it is to live with on anything other than a limited use basis, the mediocre steering feel is pretty much the final nail in the coffin.

Driving a twin really makes you realize just how hard gm failed on that car as an overall package.

Yes, I have driven a Sky, its a fun car.

Not to continue the off-topicness, but you have to wonder how the car would have progressed if it had been produced more than 3-4 years. Yes, the twins came out of the box recently, but after 5-6 years of development. I think it would be safe to say the GM "cousins" had much less development time, and were not as refined as they could have been by the time they were dumped by GM.

[Frost]

Ok, this thread has derailed but here's my $0.02 on the matter.

For clarification, I do not own either the twins or a Camaro so there.

IF and only IF you are paying all of it in outright cash or have a downpayment that's ridiculously large, go for the Camaro. You'll walk out with little or no debt and can start throwing mods on the car.

If you are financing it, it's a wash since $6k with any financing over the course of 4 to 6 years is negligible in terms of monthly payments. I would go with the Twins simply because the Camaro is heavy and whilst you could toss in a V8 into it, you can't elminate that weight very easily. The Twins offer a very good STARTING platform to build yourself as a driver and a racing platform. The Camaro is scarier for me to drive at the limit imho.

What do you want to do with the car?

In my case, I want to track and autocross it and possibly drive across North America in it before I start heavy mods for track purposes. The Twins for me, would be a better option.

[utekineir]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Yes, I have driven a Sky, its a fun car.

Not to continue the off-topicness, but you have to wonder how the car would have progressed if it had been produced more than 3-4 years. Yes, the twins came out of the box recently, but after 5-6 years of development. I think it would be safe to say the GM "cousins" had much less development time, and were not as refined as they could have been by the time they were dumped by GM.

Well anythibg let alone a convertible with rwd and that engine better be "fun". It's basically anything that doesn't directly involve the powertrain that fails miserably.

Agree fully that had it been produced in the post bailout domestic environment rather than pre bailout the car would have been remarkably better.

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by Frost

Ok, this thread has derailed but here's my $0.02 on the matter.

For clarification, I do not own either the twins or a Camaro so there.

IF and only IF you are paying all of it in outright cash or have a downpayment that's ridiculously large, go for the Camaro. You'll walk out with little or no debt and can start throwing mods on the car.

If you are financing it, it's a wash since $6k with any financing over the course of 4 to 6 years is negligible in terms of monthly payments. I would go with the Twins simply because the Camaro is heavy and whilst you could toss in a V8 into it, you can't elminate that weight very easily. The Twins offer a very good STARTING platform to build yourself as a driver and a racing platform. The Camaro is scarier for me to drive at the limit imho.

What do you want to do with the car?

In my case, I want to track and autocross it and possibly drive across North America in it before I start heavy mods for track purposes. The Twins for me, would be a better option.

I intend to DD, weekend spirited drives...I'd like to track it maybe once a month if I'm lucky, I'm not sure how the tracks are around where I live...probably garbage though. I do intend to mod the car but I don't want to void warranty with something like FI.

At this point, I've kinda ruled out the Camaro. I've driven it about 5 times and I kinda get why people say it's JUST a V6. It really is nothing special to me, it looks cool... kinda. Now if this car weighed ~600 pounds less I might be singing a different tune, the car definitely feels heavy and I hope GM puts this fat girl on a diet. Another downer is that it basically averages 20-22MPG...considering my commute to work this is pretty poor.

The steering feel really is what it does it for me on FR-S it feels magnificent, it makes you feel connected to the road and it's relatively predictable on how the vehicle will respond with your steering input. 34 MPG HWY is also AWESOME! :p I will be saving anywhere from $500-700+ a year choosing the FR-S over the Camaro even with premium gas.

At this point I have a few issues... I live in the North East. And winter is coming slowly but surely (Shirley you can't be serious...I am and don't call me Shirley) and this would be my only car I won't have a winter car so there's that.

Rumors of a 2015 model with a power upgrade, via FI or 2.5L kinda bug me! I wish they'd release some information.

Tokyo Auto Show in November.

So I'm kinda unsure if I should buy the 13 or wait for the 15...

[BRZ21]

Originally Posted by Sully

Having Saturn didn't make any sense when GM already had other brands(chevy...) making budget vehicles.

There also wasn't any reason they couldn't have continued the Solstice/Sky as a chevy had they wanted. It doesn't really compete with the corvette.

saturn was going to be cheaper than any other gm sect because gm planned on making the car completely on the assembly line with no humans involved what so ever. unions didnt allow it so with the involvement of people the prices went up so they were on par with other "cheap" companies...

[Diode Dynamics]

This whole discussion has got me thinking *and laughing* about the tough decision my dad had to make for his first car back in the 70's.

He ended up buying his older brother's Gremlin(all he could afford):


It was either that or a Pacer:


Lol...so either way things should look pretty good for you, no reason to really stress out! At least you can afford a Camaro or one of the twins!


....BTW here's his weekend toy now,



Hard work pays off!


Nick C.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

At this point I have a few issues... I live in the North East. And winter is coming slowly but surely (Shirley you can't be serious...I am and don't call me Shirley) and this would be my only car I won't have a winter car so there's that.

Rumors of a 2015 model with a power upgrade, via FI or 2.5L kinda bug me! I wish they'd release some information.

Tokyo Auto Show in November.

So I'm kinda unsure if I should buy the 13 or wait for the 15...

Winter tires will help immensely. You'd probably have to get them with the Camaro as well, but a set with steelies will probably run you about $500.

And if you want to wait and see on what may come out in another year (things in November aren't always guaranteed), that is your choice. However, as has been said on this forum before, you know what the car is now...you don't know what the car will be.

That said, if your car is working fine now, maybe you start saving the money and see where you are in two years when the 2015s start coming out.

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Winter tires will help immensely. You'd probably have to get them with the Camaro as well, but a set with steelies will probably run you about $500.

And if you want to wait and see on what may come out in another year (things in November aren't always guaranteed), that is your choice. However, as has been said on this forum before, you know what the car is now...you don't know what the car will be.

That said, if your car is working fine now, maybe you start saving the money and see where you are in two years when the 2015s start coming out.

It's not something I need just something I want, while I'm young haha... you only live through your twenties once. But waiting would be the smartest decision, its a constant battle.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

It's not something I need just something I want, while I'm young haha... you only live through your twenties once. But waiting would be the smartest decision, its a constant battle.

Well, at least I know you aren't a complete loon now