pmccut's FBM dyno results

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

There's a TSB for unsteady idle for all Fx2x engines, including ours. One of the fixes has to do with shimming the knock sensor. Probably unrelated, but just a thought.

I think you mean cam sensor.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

I think you mean cam sensor.

Was it the can sensor? Too bad, thought there was something about the knock sensor too. I'll take sensor trouble and phantom knock over real knock events.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Toma

It would be THE way to go...if they made one lol.

Motec's just finishing off their M1 plugin for the 86, complete replacement for the stock ECU and allows live tuning etc. Wont be cheap but those that need it will have the option.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by JP

Motec's just finishing off their M1 plugin for the 86, complete replacement for the stock ECU and allows live tuning etc. Wont be cheap but those that need it will have the option.

Live tuning is very nice. Plus, problem with any factory ecu is the hundreds of paramaters, some of which aren't certain as to their function and interaction.

It's way faster and more straight foreward to tune a stand alone.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by JP

Motec's just finishing off their M1 plugin for the 86, complete replacement for the stock ECU and allows live tuning etc. Wont be cheap but those that need it will have the option.

Yummmm MoTeC

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by Toma

Live tuning is very nice. Plus, problem with any factory ecu is the hundreds of paramaters, some of which aren't certain as to their function and interaction.

It's way faster and more straight foreward to tune a stand alone.

I concur. I'm personally waiting for the Life Racing/Syvecs PnP.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

I concur. I'm personally waiting for the Life Racing/Syvecs PnP.

As long as they smarten up and star using VE, and price it under $2k lol. Otherwise, make mine a Haltech.

[ft_sjo]

Originally Posted by pmccut

Update: LJ has kept me busy with updates for the 91/pump gas map. We got rid of the majority of the knock, but it always pulls some timing (1-2) deg right before you go into boost. Under boost it doesn't seem to knock, but there's probably not much timing being added for now.

I decided to give up on 91 for now, as I was always planning to stick to E85 once the 91 backup map was ok. I drove around until it was far below empty on the gauge, added 12.5G of E85 from canisters, and flashed LJs E85 basemap. Fuel gauge doesn't even show full, so it must've been very empty.

I've now driven it around for about 30 minutes total on the new map, seeing constant knock. I just went out for a 10 minute drive, saw -1 deg timing pulled exiting my garage, then -5 deg @ 3500 rpm getting onto the highway. I'm so lost. I don't know what to do anymore. Incredibly depressed.

I'll probably call up WORKS motorsports in the morning to see if they want to take a stab at dyno tuning it, or figuring out if there is a mechanical issue.

If this is an off-the-shelf kit then I would expect FBM to have a reasonably good base map for it. If the base map is good then when it comes to final mapping, there shouldn't be a huge amount to do.

If the above is your scenario yet the maps are completely out then it points to one of three things :-

1) The base map isn't very good
2) There's a mechanical problem somewhere on your car
3) Installation issue


Have you pressure tested your intake tract?

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

...

1) The base map isn't very good
...

This is my vote and from what i have seen many of the tuners (since they have to start from scratch when using ecutek) simple don't have a handle on tuning this car for boost and drivebility.

Although i will say the FB base map seems safer than a couple of the pro tuners maps after a couple revisions.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by pmccut

Update: LJ has kept me busy with updates for the 91/pump gas map. We got rid of the majority of the knock, but it always pulls some timing (1-2) deg right before you go into boost. Under boost it doesn't seem to knock, but there's probably not much timing being added for now.

I decided to give up on 91 for now, as I was always planning to stick to E85 once the 91 backup map was ok. I drove around until it was far below empty on the gauge, added 12.5G of E85 from canisters, and flashed LJs E85 basemap. Fuel gauge doesn't even show full, so it must've been very empty.

I've now driven it around for about 30 minutes total on the new map, seeing constant knock. I just went out for a 10 minute drive, saw -1 deg timing pulled exiting my garage, then -5 deg @ 3500 rpm getting onto the highway. I'm so lost. I don't know what to do anymore. Incredibly depressed.

I'll probably call up WORKS motorsports in the morning to see if they want to take a stab at dyno tuning it, or figuring out if there is a mechanical issue.

The load area where at or near atmospheric (zero vacuum / boost) that you are seeing knock correction is a common area for these cars (though on my car it is at a little lower load (.8g/rev). I believe some of it is real and some of it is false (could be an idiosyncrasy with the sample buffer they use for knock detection like we saw with the evo).

As for the E80 map, did you check your fuel trims and afr where you were seeing large knock correction? E85 does not take a lot more timing in the midrange (3k - 4k)than pump gas.. I stopped seeing gains with just a couple degrees over my 93 map.. Up top is another story. Also, Unlike Gasoline E85 knocks on the rich side, not the lean side.

If you were still having fuel trim issues on pump, E85 is probably going to be worse due to increased flow rates.

[Toma]

Have u ever seen negative fuel trims applied to wot?

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Toma

Have u ever seen negative fuel trims applied to wot?

Me? or pmccut?

I have 100% seen long term trims applied under WOT.. not sure If i have seen negative long term trims applied... good question though. It would seem logical that as a failsafe the code would not appy negative long term trims.

I'll have to dig through my collection of logs when i had long term trims enabled.

[Toma]

Yeah. GM for one wont apply negative ones.... only positive.

And positive would not be end of the world. I think stock at redline it requests 11.9. I leaned out in steps all the way to 13.4 with negligable gains.

And factory sensor seems off. At stoich its pretty close. When it reads 12.5... my wideband was 13.1.

Will investigate further. But since has so little affect on power to even my tested 11.9.... not the end of the world.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Toma

Yeah. GM for one wont apply negative ones.... only positive.

And positive would not be end of the world. I think stock at redline it requests 11.9. I leaned out in steps all the way to 13.4 with negligable gains.

And factory sensor seems off. At stoich its pretty close. When it reads 12.5... my wideband was 13.1.

Will investigate further. But since has so little affect on power to even my tested 11.9.... not the end of the world.

You can adjust the sensor scale in the rom to read in line with your wideband if you want. I plan to do that when i install my header and wideband. How repeatable the sensor is once you get low in the 12's is another story....

On 93 i saw gains leaning to high 12's... even more at 13 but it would light up the knock sensor. Not a lot but every little bit helps when your NA.

On E85 i saw almost no difference anywhere between 12 and 13.. I may have been too far off mbt when i was playing with the afr on E85 though... I dialed in timing after i set the AFR.