100% DI Failure with Nurburgring rentals

[Sport-Tech]

And even then I believe you have to push the temperature of the injectors above 150 degrees Celsisus (so very aggressive driving for an extended period of time). We know this is possible because people are doing it and their injectors are failing.

That 150 degrees you are referencing was only raised with respect to the injector tips and potential durability damage to them at this temperature (see earlier Toyota quote in this thread). It has nothing to do with knock damaging the injector seals. There is no indication at this point that a 150+C DI tip temperature is a required condition for seal damage.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by ayau

Maybe Subaru was right from the beginning when they said they didn't want direct injection in their engine.

DI brings us 12.5:1 CR.. Would hate to lose that in this NA application..
Just some bugs to work out in this car.. Will take some time..

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ayau

Maybe Subaru was right from the beginning when they said they didn't want direct injection in their engine.

Where did they say that? EVERYONE is moving towards direct injection, more control translates to higher efficiency (and power if tuned properly), this partnership exists so Subaru can phase direct injection into their other vehicles using Toyota tech.

Unless you're talking about how Subaru's DI system wasn't up to the task before Toyota stepped in...

[ayau]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Where did they say that? EVERYONE is moving towards direct injection, more control translates to higher efficiency (and power if tuned properly), this partnership exists so Subaru can phase direct injection into their other vehicles using Toyota tech.

Unless you're talking about how Subaru's DI system wasn't up to the task before Toyota stepped in...

I faintly remember reading an article stating that Subaru was opposed to using DI in this engine.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ayau

Maybe Subaru was right from the beginning when they said they didn't want direct injection in their engine.

The FA20 would not hit 200 hp without DI. Toyota engineers mentioned the engine was around 150 hp before they implemented DI, raised the CR, and tuned it.

The only other way to hit 200 hp while staying NA is variable lift cams, but that would have probably caused problems packaging the engine so low and far rearward in the chassis.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The FA20 would not hit 200 hp without DI. Toyota engineers mentioned the engine was around 150 hp before they implemented DI, raised the CR, and tuned it.

The only other way to hit 200 hp while staying NA is variable lift cams, but that would have probably caused problems packaging the engine so low and far rearward in the chassis.

Doesn't the FA20 have variable valve timing?

The FA also features direct injection (from Toyota) and Subaru AVCS variable valve timing system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...baru_FA_engine

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by ayau

Doesn't the FA20 have variable valve timing?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...baru_FA_engine

Variable valve timing, not variable lift. Basically VVT vs. VVTL.

[thill]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

The FA20 would not hit 200 hp without DI. Toyota engineers mentioned the engine was around 150 hp before they implemented DI, raised the CR, and tuned it.

The only other way to hit 200 hp while staying NA is variable lift cams, but that would have probably caused problems packaging the engine so low and far rearward in the chassis.

Agreed, outside of turboing the engine DI was the best way to get the car up to 200hp. I think it was a win/win for Toyota and Subaru. Toyoyts needed the boxer engine to achieve their goals, and Subaru engineers got exposed to Toyota's DI technology and engineering.

Coming from a car that had a turbo, I am really enjoying the NA engine. So much so that I would not turbo this car. I would go the supercharger route if I really wanted more power if tune, exhaust, intake, filter are not enough for me.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by ayau

I faintly remember reading an article stating that Subaru was opposed to using DI in this engine.

The engine would have never gotten 200 hp without DI and the Toyota tuning the compression higher, would've been closer to 160 hp, if it hadn't put DI it wouldn't be a very good selling point or power from a power standpoint.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

On the same wiki page:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...baru_FA_engine

It proves that subaru was able to make heeps of power with just DI and a turbo and lowering compression, future sti motor?

[thill]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

On the same wiki page:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...baru_FA_engine

It proves that subaru was able to make heeps of power with just DI and a turbo and lowering compression, future sti motor?

Yes, Subaru is going to phase out the 2.5 liter engine in favor of the 2.0.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/turbo-v...ower-next-wrx/

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by thill

Agreed, outside of turboing the engine DI was the best way to get the car up to 200hp. I think it was a win/win for Toyota and Subaru. Toyoyts needed the boxer engine to achieve their goals, and Subaru engineers got exposed to Toyota's DI technology and engineering.

Coming from a car that had a turbo, I am really enjoying the NA engine. So much so that I would not turbo this car. I would go the supercharger route if I really wanted more power if tune, exhaust, intake, filter are not enough for me.

Yeah it's a tough call between the fat torque curve of a turbo vs. the responsiveness of an NA engine. When I'm in my FR-S, I miss the low/midrange punch of the turbo in my GTI. Toyota/Subaru decided to give the FR-S a torque dip of all things. But when I'm in the GTI, I miss the instant response of the FR-S.

In the end though, If I had to choose, I'd probably go with the 2.0 TSI/K03. The difference in the torque curves is pretty staggering:

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by thill

Yes, Subaru is going to phase out the 2.5 liter engine in favor of the 2.0.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/turbo-v...ower-next-wrx/

The CVT idea is stupid yea it gives great economy but the engine sound will change and the driver feel won't be as fun

[LS13]

Joy of first year ownership/test lab driver. But then again Subaru has left the ringland cast pistons issue on the STI since forever :\