Tilton Wilwood pedal box installation

[Nigelr32]

I am going to need to fit a floor mounted Tilton or Wilwood bias pedal box to my project GT86. I want to retain the ABS if possible, as removing it can cause all sorts of electronic issues, and it works really well on these cars.


Does anyone KNOW if this will work. The system is split diagonally from the factory, so I'm thinking if I swap the RR pipe with the FR pipe and vice versa, and also swap over the sensor wires from these wheels, the system will work with the front rear bias?


I'm not too sure if the module has a front rear bias built in already, this would really screw me up if it does??


I've just spent two hours searching the internet and can only come up with BMW owners who do it, and they mention re-plumbing the module, but that's it.


Any help here will be greatly appreciated..

[Nigelr32]

Surely someone must know the answer to this one?? Pleeeeease???

[GSpeed]

I would expect that the module does have a front bias built in. If you measure the piston diameters and locations, and rotor diameters, it appears to have a bias slightly more towards the rear than you'd expect on a sports car. However, people regularly complain of a front-heavy bias.

Jake

[Nigelr32]

Apparently the ABS contains G meters and brakes the relevant wheel accordingly?? Is this fact??

[puma]

you will lose you speed sensors if you remove it completly, you need to keep the electronic part of the ABS plugged in, this is what we did but eliminated the whole tubing side of it.

We only did a bias box because i didn't want to mess with the clutch and the electronic gas pedal but it is basically the same thing with a complete pedal assembly.

[Nigelr32]

Thanks for your reply Puma man.


Did you see my other thread, "ABS Removal"? I have discovered some issues on my test mule. (I have a project car and a daily driver GT86)

[Shankenstein]

Originally Posted by Nigelr32

Apparently the ABS contains G meters and brakes the relevant wheel accordingly?? Is this fact??

I don't think this is correct.

The ABS system is primarily based on your wheel speed sensors. The controller compares individual wheel speeds and decides when to activate. It also considers the estimated vehicle speed, brake fluid pressure, solenoid states, and recent data from the CAN bus.

The narrator is awkward, but this is an excellent explanation of early ABS systems. I don't believe we have a deceleration sensor or nearly as complicated diagnostic routines... but it's still a good video.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4IN808Q1QE"]A B S[ANTI LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM] - YouTube[/ame]

[Nigelr32]

Doesn't it take data from the steering angle sensor?

[wparsons]

VSC will brake individual wheels based on lateral G, steering angle and yaw angle (uses them to determine slip angle), but under heavy braking in a straight line that shouldn't come into play unless the car is about to spin.

The ABS system also includes EBFD (computer controlled bias), so even if the system is mechanically biased to one end, the ECU can shift the bias around as it wants.

[churchx]

Unless pedal-dance?

[Shankenstein]

Originally Posted by wparsons

VSC will brake individual wheels based on lateral G, steering angle and yaw angle (uses them to determine slip angle), but under heavy braking in a straight line that shouldn't come into play unless the car is about to spin.

The ABS system also includes EBFD (computer controlled bias), so even if the system is mechanically biased to one end, the ECU can shift the bias around as it wants.

Good summary.

Do you know what triggers the EBFD activation?

I'm guessing that it's a pretty complicated controller (with feed-forward + feedback).

The feed-forward would come from vehicle and road dynamics. Yaw and pitch sensors can estimate the angle of the road and biasing of the sprung mass (front/rear and left-right). VSC can estimate of the slip angle. Toyota probably has some slick algorithms developed for the Prius' regeneration system that can estimate the available braking force.

The feedback would come from the wheel speed sensors. How Stuff Works indicates that ABS and EBFD use the slip ratio (wheel speed vs vehicle speed).

[Nigelr32]

Well, I bought the Tilton underfoot M/Cyl 3 pedal box form Titan Motorsport. Theres no room for the forward facing cylinders unless you have short legs.


The Servo mount in the bulkhead has now been cut out and all the holes have been welded up. I now have a VERY fire proof firewall.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

Do you know what triggers the EBFD activation?

Nope, but I would imagine there are many scenarios. I imagine it would alter bias on the fly over pulsing both brakes at one end of the car to try evening out the braking force as well.

[Nigelr32]

So, are you professional guys who know what you're talking about, (unlike me), saying that if I re-plumb the ABS it wont work?
I would imagine the bias is set in the hardware of the module, ie: if I swap the RR for the FR pipe and swap the sensor wiring accordingly, it will still think the RR is connected to its original position, and, if trying to give less pressure to the RR, it will actually deliver less pressure to the FR??


I'm beginning to think I need to junk the ABS 100% and just keep the computer on board. Now.. how to stop it throwing the dash lights??