New to manual transmission, have some concerns (clunking, etc)

[pancake]

Hello, I recently bought a brand new 2015 car and it is my first manual transmission car. I've driven a manual twice before this in my life (so I'm a beginner)

I've had the car about a week now and I haven't stalled in a few days!

I have a couple of concerns though; things I may be doing wrong, and looking for clarification on something.

First, the main issue is going up my driveway. What I've been doing is turning into my driveway and stopping on the slope up the driveway. I try to get going like I would on the street, but I start to roll back and I sort of panic, and either let the clutch out too early or give too much gas because in my mind I need to stop rolling back as soon as possible.

So what I've been doing recently to try to combat this, is that I've been keeping my foot on the brake until I reach the bite point with my clutch foot, then going from brake to gas and keeping the gas minimal to get me moving. However when I do this, I hear lots of clunking noise and sometimes my headlights even flicker off then on.

I'm not sure why on a brand new car I am hearing clunking when trying to go up my driveway, so I figure it's something I am doing wrong. The only other time I hear clunking is when I'm going slow in a higher gear.

So I guess I'm wondering what am I doing wrong to cause this clunking when trying to go up my driveway?

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Ok, on to concern number 2. When I shift gears from 1 -> 2 and from 2 -> 3, and sometimes from 3 -> 4, my car bounces back and forth, or jerks, soon after shifting. I thought maybe it's because I'm letting the clutch out too fast, so I made it a point to let the clutch out slower next time, and then it sort of pulls backward, like it seems to want to brake. So then I tried giving more gas in between gear shifts, but then the car wants to jump (torque forward).

I guess one thing I'm not clear on, is if I need to be applying gas at the bite point for each shift or just for starting from 0 mph. Should I be depressing the clutch, shifting gears, then dropping the clutch when above gear 1? or do I need to give slight gas while re-engaging the clutch like I do when I'm stopped to get going. Or should I be changing gears then re-engaging the clutch fully before giving gas in the new gear?

Hopefully, I laid out my thoughts clearly, and I do absolutely appreciate any comments you may have. It will help a ton. Thank you

[pancake]

Just wanted to mention, that this is sort of my introduction to this forum. I've been lurking for a couple months now, awaiting the day I get my BRZ. Well I got it last week and I was excited to register for this forum.

Here she is:



I also posted this on reddit/r/ft86, because I'm not sure how much overlap there is between that and this forum (r/ft86 seems really small).

So I guess I also just wanted to say HI!

[bcj]

On hills, use the handbrake. It works. Keep the release button depressed.

Jerking when shifting gears is due to a mis-match between current road speed and the motor RPM.
Practice will smooth this out if you concentrate on it.

[kch]

Originally Posted by pancake

So what I've been doing recently to try to combat this, is that I've been keeping my foot on the brake until I reach the bite point with my clutch foot, then going from brake to gas and keeping the gas minimal to get me moving. However when I do this, I hear lots of clunking noise and sometimes my headlights even flicker off then on.

I'm not sure why on a brand new car I am hearing clunking when trying to go up my driveway, so I figure it's something I am doing wrong. The only other time I hear clunking is when I'm going slow in a higher gear.

That sounds like you're lugging the engine. When you let the clutch bite when you're at a standstill, your RPMs will drop (and even stall if you go too far with the clutch). The engine sounds pretty tractor-like when it's under load at low RPMs, and the lights may flicker off if you drop the RPMs too much. Your method is fine, but try moving from brake to gas earlier--that is, don't let the clutch bite quite as much before you try to move. Or, as another poster suggested, use the handbrake. Eventually, you will be comfortable enough to hill-start without either technique.

Ok, on to concern number 2. When I shift gears from 1 -> 2 and from 2 -> 3, and sometimes from 3 -> 4, my car bounces back and forth, or jerks, soon after shifting. I thought maybe it's because I'm letting the clutch out too fast, so I made it a point to let the clutch out slower next time, and then it sort of pulls backward, like it seems to want to brake. So then I tried giving more gas in between gear shifts, but then the car wants to jump (torque forward).

I guess one thing I'm not clear on, is if I need to be applying gas at the bite point for each shift or just for starting from 0 mph. Should I be depressing the clutch, shifting gears, then dropping the clutch when above gear 1? or do I need to give slight gas while re-engaging the clutch like I do when I'm stopped to get going. Or should I be changing gears then re-engaging the clutch fully before giving gas in the new gear?

This just takes time to master. I'll break this down:
-You're accelerating in 2nd. Engine is at 4k, and you want to shift to 3rd.
-Depress the clutch, lift off the throttle, and move the gear lever. At this point, your RPMs will start to drop because you're off the throttle.
-When you shift into 3rd at this hypothetical speed, the engine will need to be around 2.5k RPM (estimate), down from 4k in 2nd.
-If you lift off the clutch too early, your RPMs will not have dropped enough. Your engine will be at 3k, and the transmission needs it to be at 2.5k. The car will lurch forward as the engine is expecting the car to be moving faster than it actually is.
-If you lift off the clutch too late, the car will slow down and lurch backwards. This is because the engine is at maybe 1k when it should be at 2.5k. The engine will therefore slow the car down until the RPMs match.

So basically, it all comes down to timing. When you are more experienced, you will be able to engage the next gear at the exact moment when the engine is at the appropriate RPM. Do note, however, that you can also rev-match using the throttle. This is also an art that has to be perfected, and will in fact be required to downshift (3->2, for instance--you'll have to depress the clutch, give it a little gas to raise the RPMs, and then engage 2nd).

Edit: to answer your final question, each higher gear requires less and less finesse with the clutch. From 1->2 and maybe even 2->3, you might still need to slip the clutch a bit, at least at first.

[strat61caster]

1. More revs to keep engine speed up, when it dips too low and lugs is why the headlights flicker and it causes some noise. Yes you will be using up your clutch more quickly but it's the nature of your situation and over time you will get better and smoother and be nicer on the clutch.

Clutches are replaceable.

2. Timing, you just haven't found the sweet spot yet, so just more practice and patience and experimentation, sometimes I add gas between shifts, sometimes I don't it all depends on how I feel like driving it and the current situation.

[fridayfrs]

I can only add one suggestion for your driveway. I don't know if we are talking steep incline or slight and whether there is a curb involved. If no curb keep it in second and make the turn. If a curb use technique described below.

Find a slight incline on a dead end road or empty parking lot. Learn to hold the car on the incline without using the brake or e-brake and not roll backwards. That is a balance of throttle and clutch. Once you have this mastered hill starts are much easier. The e-brake shouldn't be used in normal operation of the car. I'd get confused in a hurry.

Driving a manual transmission takes practice. I have had to relearn a few things after a 12 year break from owning one. I still fight second in this car but that is a known quirk.

[ryoma]

I would recommend adjusting the clutch to your preference as well. I find that the stock clutch engagement point is too high to be consistent. though, since you learned how to drive manual in this car, you probably are used to it. adjusting it did wonders for me though.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

I also don't use ebrake when going up hills unless it's a VERY steep hill or someone is on my ass behind me without giving me any room. my driveway is also on an incline and you'll get used to working the clutch when going up the driveway eventually. keep on practicing and you'll get it down. just don't panic since that's a good way to add too much RPM or release the clutch too quick. feel out the pedals with your feet so you know how accurate your inputs are instead of just mashing on the pedal

[sukumizu]

Originally Posted by pancake

I guess one thing I'm not clear on, is if I need to be applying gas at the bite point for each shift or just for starting from 0 mph.

I find that giving it a tiny amount of gas (almost like resting my foot on the pedal) helps a good deal in getting smooth shifts from 2 > 3, 3 > 4, etc. You can let go of the clutch and get a smooth shift going without touching the accel pedal but I'm just not used to that method personally.

[mixedjuice]

Practice makes perfect.
Shift responsibly my friends

[Fastbrew]

Just to ease your mind a little -
You will get a clunking sound if you press the clutch down and are also accelerating. Don't do that


You should always shift with the gas off - especially as a beginner.


One other tip - practice a couple times getting the car to go forward in first gear with NO gas. It will teach you about how little gas is needed if you use your clutch foot correctly.


Practice makes perfect


Have fun.

[pancake]

I would 'thank' every one of you, but I don't see where the Thank option is, so I just want to thank you all here. All of these replies are very helpful!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by fridayfrs

Learn to hold the car on the incline without using the brake or e-brake and not roll backwards. That is a balance of throttle and clutch. Once you have this mastered hill starts are much easier. The e-brake shouldn't be used in normal operation of the car. I'd get confused in a hurry.

This debate has popped up before but I 100% disagree with this, yes it's a skill you should be capable of doing but I see no good reason to burn up the clutch when the parking brake is right there for this specific purpose when driving around every day.

[tts266]

When I accelerate to high rpm on 2nd gear and let go of gas, my car does a back and fourth motion. Is this normal?

[Lelantas]

Originally Posted by tts266

When I accelerate to high rpm on 2nd gear and let go of gas, my car does a back and fourth motion. Is this normal?

If I'm understanding you correctly, if you suddenly completely let off the gas, particularly at the lower gears, it's normal that the car lurches. That's essentially engine braking kicking in.

To avoid that, ease off the gas slower, or, if you're going to coast for a bit, just shift to a higher gear (which will have less engine braking).