Tires....

[ravenblackfrs]

I posted this in GENERAL because its not about the FRS. I just needed some input for tires for my work car. Figured there was enough smart guys here to help me draw the right conclusions...

I have a 06 Toyota Matrix. It has 16" stock rims, stock tires... want to replace them with some good water handling tires because I hate hydroplaning... I know speed plays a big factor, but these stock tires are so bare, I can jet ski this bad boy at 30mph... hell maybe slower! Question is....

Do I want a thinner tire or a wider tire? Will more width help with grip in the wet conditions or give more tire surface able to "hydroplane" on more water? Or is width even a factor?

[FRiSson]

The tire companies have devoted a lot of research to wet traction. There are some specific models that are designed with that foremost in mind. You should first check Consumer Reports independent research on tires (it is not available free). Also, Tire Rack has done extensive testing and has reports from consumers on wet tire performance. There is a wealth of data available, some better than others, you just have to put it together. Don't rely on someone's anecdotal report that Tire A is best... do the research and go by independent testing and surveys with large sample (population) sizes. You probably know this already, but I lot of people don't really understand how statistics work.

[Hardrock4445]

Stock tire width should be fine. For best wet traction make sure to get an open shoulder tire. A closed shoulder tire will have worse wet traction due to no place for the displaced water to go.

[ravenblackfrs]

So trying to get them to stuff a lil wider tire on the rim wouldnt help then. Cool. Open shoulder? I'll have to check that out, going to check out tire rack.com

[FReSh]

Generally, if you're worried about hydroplaning, you'll be better off with a thinner tire. This is due to the same reason that skinnier tires work better in snow. Its all about pressure. Your car weighs X and the contact patch of your car supports this weight. Changing the tires generally doesn't change X, but it can make the contact patch smaller/larger. A smaller contact patch with the same weight will create a higher pressure on each tire, allowing it to more easily cut through snow/water. Obviously, though, the tread pattern/design of the tire will have an even greater effect, so just do a bit of reading about specific tires.

[FReSh]

just for clarity, the pressure I refer to is not the tire pressure, but the amount of force per unit area that the tire pushes on the ground.

[ravenblackfrs]

Originally Posted by FReSh

Generally, if you're worried about hydroplaning, you'll be better off with a thinner tire. This is due to the same reason that skinnier tires work better in snow. Its all about pressure. Your car weighs X and the contact patch of your car supports this weight. Changing the tires generally doesn't change X, but it can make the contact patch smaller/larger. A smaller contact patch with the same weight will create a higher pressure on each tire, allowing it to more easily cut through snow/water. Obviously, though, the tread pattern/design of the tire will have an even greater effect, so just do a bit of reading about specific tires.

Awesome! You just clarified my thoughts... contact patch... thats the word I was looking for. And I knew what you meant as far as pressure to the ground.

[ZDan]

Tire make/model selection is infinitely more important than size (within reason).
You won't be able to determine wet weather grip solely by looking at tread patterns, either. A greater void area does imply resistance to hydroplaning, but doesn't really say anything about *wet grip* prior to hydroplaning.
Get stock sizes, but try to get tires that have been tested on Tire Rack's website and come through with flying colors in the wet grip.

FWIW, we just got new tires for the wife's Mazda3 and I went through the whole performance/price/wet-traction optimization plan and decided on General G-Max AS-03s. Highly recommend them.
Also considered the Kumho Ecsta 4X.

Tire Rack test for these tires vs. a couple of others here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=151

Bridgestone RE970AS look like another great option for wet grip.

If you don't need all-seasons (i.e., slim to no chance you'll be driving in cold-wet conditions or snow/ice), Continental ExtremeContact DW are widely regarded as about the best wet grip tires out there.

Go to the Tire Rack site and root around, tons of test info on a bunch of tires, and loads of customer survey results too.

Also, if serious about maintaining hydroplaning resistance, you'll want to change out your tires long before they get to the wear indicators. Tires usually come with 10/32" tread depth, wear indicators are at 2/32". But you start to rapidly lose hydroplaning resistance below ~4/32".

[ravenblackfrs]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Tire make/model selection is infinitely more important than size (within reason).
You won't be able to determine wet weather grip solely by looking at tread patterns, either. A greater void area does imply resistance to hydroplaning, but doesn't really say anything about *wet grip* prior to hydroplaning.
Get stock sizes, but try to get tires that have been tested on Tire Rack's website and come through with flying colors in the wet grip.

FWIW, we just got new tires for the wife's Mazda3 and I went through the whole performance/price/wet-traction optimization plan and decided on General G-Max AS-03s. Highly recommend them.
Also considered the Kumho Ecsta 4X.

Tire Rack test for these tires vs. a couple of others here: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=151

Bridgestone RE970AS look like another great option for wet grip.

If you don't need all-seasons (i.e., slim to no chance you'll be driving in cold-wet conditions or snow/ice), Continental ExtremeContact DW are widely regarded as about the best wet grip tires out there.

Go to the Tire Rack site and root around, tons of test info on a bunch of tires, and loads of customer survey results too.

Also, if serious about maintaining hydroplaning resistance, you'll want to change out your tires long before they get to the wear indicators. Tires usually come with 10/32" tread depth, wear indicators are at 2/32". But you start to rapidly lose hydroplaning resistance below ~4/32".

Yea down here in Atlanta Ga, we dont get much snow or ice... maybe twice a year if that. Thanks for all the info! I knew I could read the reviews on that website, but I figured since I have somewhat of a live interaction with you guys I could get feed back quicker.

[roddy]

I haven't tried the RE970s yet, but I ran the previous model RE960s on a couple of different cars, and really liked them. A good UHP A/S tire. I couldn't get them in the size I needed for my Accord, so I tried a set of Bridgestone Turanza Serenity (grand touring) tires, and found them just as good. As an added bonus, the Turanzas were the most quiet tires I have ever heard (or not heard in this case). I never found the OE Michelins on the Accord to be loud, but when I switched to these, the difference in road noise was surprising. They're good in the wet too. Worth considering for sure.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by FReSh

Generally, if you're worried about hydroplaning, you'll be better off with a thinner tire. This is due to the same reason that skinnier tires work better in snow. Its all about pressure. Your car weighs X and the contact patch of your car supports this weight. Changing the tires generally doesn't change X, but it can make the contact patch smaller/larger. A smaller contact patch with the same weight will create a higher pressure on each tire, allowing it to more easily cut through snow/water. Obviously, though, the tread pattern/design of the tire will have an even greater effect, so just do a bit of reading about specific tires.

Originally Posted by FReSh

just for clarity, the pressure I refer to is not the tire pressure, but the amount of force per unit area that the tire pushes on the ground.

tire width has very little to do with contact patch size and the pressure inside the tire is gonna be almost identical to the pressure the tire applies to the ground.

you would probably be served best by looking around the forum. you would have found that we have a wheels/tire sub forum.

[ravenblackfrs]

Originally Posted by fatoni

tire width has very little to do with contact patch size and the pressure inside the tire is gonna be almost identical to the pressure the tire applies to the ground.

you would probably be served best by looking around the forum. you would have found that we have a wheels/tire sub forum.

Why would I check that sub forum?? Not looking for a tire for the FRS... figured most of the info in there was dedicated to the brz/frs... which, thats not the vehicle I'm talking about right now.

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by ravenblackfrs

Why would I check that sub forum?? Not looking for a tire for the FRS... figured most of the info in there was dedicated to the brz/frs... which, thats not the vehicle I'm talking about right now.

There's also an Other Cars subforum with the off topic stuff. This is general chat, but it's general chat about the FRS/86. Although the questions you asked are fairly general and could've been applied to any vehicle.

Definitely thinner though, but at the same time find a tread that was designed to channel water away from the contact patch. Plenty of manufacturers out there have tires that are made for better wet-weather traction, generally unidirectional. Also make sure you have enough tread depth too, otherwise the water has nowhere to go.

edit: lulz, just noticed ZDan posted pretty much the same stuff that came from tire rack. Oh well, still good info!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by ravenblackfrs

Why would I check that sub forum?? Not looking for a tire for the FRS... figured most of the info in there was dedicated to the brz/frs... which, thats not the vehicle I'm talking about right now.

considering that this is the "scion frs/toyota 86 gt86 general forum" i dont think this is the the place for a toyota matrix either. in the tire forum, they talk about tires. in the frs forum, they talk about the frs. this thread is literally called "tires...."