Electric Turbocharger

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

Remember guys, electric turbos work like nitrous shots. They aren't always on. They only kick in when you floor it so the batteries aren't huge.

YUP!

[qoncept]

I don't have any direct experience but I'm fairly certain no one is running any kind of forced induction without tuning.

[Whitigir]

With nowadays technology, I don't see how Electric turbo Charge is a viable option.

if the turbo is not efficient enough, it is just an obstacle to the engine.

However the new Tech Subaru is developing is Hybrid Turbo.

1/ Using High Quality Battery to hold more charge and more Current
2/ Using New Turbo design that have Motor in the Housing of the Turbine Shaft
3/ At WOT under Load on Low RPM, the ECU Signal the Motor which will Immediately Pull the Turbo to suck in air (No turbo Lag)
4/ After a short Period of time (seconds), or until the turbo is selfsufficient, the Turbo will rely on Exhaust gas to drive itself, and continue to suck air in
5/ The battery will be recharged as the engine continue running
6/ If the Battery charge is not enough to run the Turbine shaft, the Turbo will work as regular turbo with Turbo Lag.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Robftss

I agree that tuning is required if the AFR's and timing is pulled, in that case I'll seek ECUtek or others. However, knowing if someone has specific experience as the the 'overhead' in this application regarding the MAF/MAP question.
I suppose 'modest gain' needs to be defined, my MAF/AFM projects gained 30-40% TQ and 20-25% HP. The important thing is that fuel and timing are with in range during the boosting activation.

If im not mistaken as long as MAF has that airflow and corresponding load rating within its known resolution it should be able to retard timing required to run boost.

[fenton]

Now that base timing may need to be altered in those load cells if it isnt able to retard things enough to be safe

[neutron256]

Unichip will let you pick maps that will provide for slightly adjusted timing yourself. This sounds like a better solution if you're just playing around with something like this. (I'm no tuning expert)

Note: Why am I encouraging this? lol

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Robftss

So.... before all start to flame me, please see my website on my e-supercharger builds.

www.phantomsuperchargers.com (there is a link to a long time skeptic who tested my units)

I'm looking at doing an FR-S/BRZ since it is a good platform for needing more torque. The previous vehicles I've done are either MAF only or AFM type, both easily accept 3-5 psi of non-parasitic boost with no tuning and using high octane pump gas. I know the FRS/BRZ has both MAF and MAP sensors, does anyone have any experience as to how the ECU will use/ ignore these two sensors @ WOT ? I have done a Honda 1.8L with both types of sensors, it required a 5th injector to correct AFR's. Thanks! Rob

The 1.8 civic probably needed injector due to honda being frugal on the fuel system. The FRS fuel system is stable up to about 270hp before needing upgrades.

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by Whitigir

With nowadays technology, I don't see how Electric turbo Charge is a viable option.

if the turbo is not efficient enough, it is just an obstacle to the engine.

However the new Tech Subaru is developing is Hybrid Turbo.

1/ Using High Quality Battery to hold more charge and more Current
2/ Using New Turbo design that have Motor in the Housing of the Turbine Shaft
3/ At WOT under Load on Low RPM, the ECU Signal the Motor which will Immediately Pull the Turbo to suck in air (No turbo Lag)
4/ After a short Period of time (seconds), or until the turbo is selfsufficient, the Turbo will rely on Exhaust gas to drive itself, and continue to suck air in
5/ The battery will be recharged as the engine continue running
6/ If the Battery charge is not enough to run the Turbine shaft, the Turbo will work as regular turbo with Turbo Lag.

Well Audi has an independent e-turbo design that activates to supplement the exhaust turbo during transition lag.

My working prototypes are presently for N/A engines, for the aftermarket, simple to retro-fit and provide similar performance to 5 psi conventional forced induction.

If you read the Wild Weasel link he explains everything.

I'm getting good results, so I want to try more cars

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by fenton

The 1.8 civic probably needed injector due to honda being frugal on the fuel system. The FRS fuel system is stable up to about 270hp before needing upgrades.

270 crank maybe. After that your gonna be running your di system above 95% duty cycle which takes away its cooling bursts at the top end

[Robftss]

I understand that the FRS's PCV is a 100% closing type check valve? and where is it located? The valve cover vent line is the hose,tee's to the intake, just before the TB?

If so, I can re-route the CCV upstream of the compressor.

Rob

[Ingen]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

It's brilliant. It's kind of like a supercharger/turbocharger hybrid but with incredible tuning capabilities.

No SC-ish engine drag, uses exhaust to capture energy to spin generator and uses electricity from said generator to spin turbine.

No Turbo lag because the electric motor won't have lag

No need for BoV because the turbine speed can be computer controlled.

Dear Subaru/BMW or whomever... please make this work.

You would never have the torque there unless you geared it massively, then it's adding weight and complexit, and losing efficiency. This in turn makes the electricity which is used in a motor to turn a compressor... Again, without 100% efficiency.

What's wrong with a turbo?

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Ingen

You would never have the torque there unless you geared it massively, then it's adding weight and complexit, and losing efficiency. This in turn makes the electricity which is used in a motor to turn a compressor... Again, without 100% efficiency.

What's wrong with a turbo?

The idea there is that you can store the energy in a battery and use it when you want. A turbo can't do that. Basically, trying to get the immediate boost of a supercharger without the parasitic loss. I'm not saying it's a good idea, just spelling out the theoretical benefit to any sort of stored-energy or electric forced induction.

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by jamesm

The idea there is that you can store the energy in a battery and use it when you want. A turbo can't do that. Basically, trying to get the immediate boost of a supercharger without the parasitic loss. I'm not saying it's a good idea, just spelling out the theoretical benefit to any sort of stored-energy or electric forced induction.

Simplicity is the main benefit. Installation is similar to a CAI. It does not require all the supporting systems that a conventional exhaust driven turbo needs. My set-up provides ~20% duty cycle, so certainly it is less than a turbo or belt supercharge,r but for street performance driving, passing / merging/ standing start acceleration/ even a drag night or autocross, it is a refillable NOS equivalent.

Once the 24V battery is quickly fully charged the system has zero drag on the host engine, not so with a turbo or belt SC. Overall electrical efficiency is ~85% during boosting, a belt SC drive train loss is ~90%. However, if you factor in parasitic drag, piping losses and thermal mass....its about the same.

In the end it is another power adder. Here is the link of the test, acceleration nearly matches his 7 psi roots blower.

http://wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturboTest.aspx

[mid_life_crisis]

It's also significantly less expensive than full time FI options.
Think of it as a NOS bottle you never have to worry about refilling or arming.
It's always there, ready to give you a nice extra kick in the pants when you want it, just by stomping on the gas pedal.
It isn't designed to take the place of a full time FI system. It is kind of an intermediate step between NA and full time FI that is less expensive, easier to install, and provides everything a lot of guys really need on the street if they're honest with themselves. If you mostly just drive around like a sane human being but wish the car had more power for passing, this might be all you need.