Electric Turbocharger

[Baker]

Fair call haha I was just thinking out loud trying to think out of the box... I can understand that, makes sence.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Baker

Fair call haha I was just thinking out loud trying to think out of the box... I can understand that, makes sence.

for sure, brainstorming like this is fun. there are a lot of possibilities coming online with new battery tech and speed controller getting smaller and more efficient. it won't be long before this discussion is no longer theoretical.

[Chasedown]

Originally Posted by Shankenstein

Purely hypothetical discussion ahead. Turn back all ye who may say "this is stupid!"

If an exhaust turbine and wastegate are installed on our engine, what is an example of turbine shaft torque and speed? How much energy (temperature and pressure above atmospheric) can be used for regeneration?

Two options for generating power:
- gear down heavily and employ a high-output alternator
- run a DC electric motor in reverse

Similarly, can an intake compressor be run from a DC motor? Not talking the tiny electric superchargers on eBay... I'm talking voltage step-up + 1/2 hp dc motor + centrifugal/twin screw compressor (a la Vortech).

The idea has been tossed around by Subaru: HERE for the next WRX.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around how challenging this would be.

Potential issues:
- Sizing a battery/capacitor bank
- Management of alternator clutching
- Management of battery/capacitor bank discharge rate
- Integrated BOV with instant pressure relief (compressor motor braking)
- Cost and hardware weight would be high.

Potential awesome:
- No lag, as long as you've got battery power.
- Boost pressure can be closely controlled via dedicated feedback controller.
- The system can be switched to "ECO" mode for regenerating energy to supplement the alternator (would require an isolator for starting battery).
- The system can be switched off completely.
- Combination of the above. ECO mode during low load, low rpm driving. Instantly switch on above X% load.

Comments? Discussion?

I've been wondering the same thing since I heard about the possible hybrid evo and the new wrx. Wouldn't another solution be to use the electricity to power an electric motor for the actual drive train? Subarus one big hit in the past has been fuel economy. Adding a generator in the exhaust to power an electric motor with the 2.5 n/a motor should generate more combined HP than the last wrx and improve fuel economy.
My idea, an over simplified system is a centrifugal (?) Supercharger in the exhaust system going in the outlet of the supercharger hooked to a higher power alternator hooked to an electric motor. You be providing power as long as the exhaust was flowing... I dunno though I'm not up with electric stuff so I'm sure there is some complicated reason that wouldn't work. Just figured using a centrifugal (?) Supercharger would help cause they already have built in transmissions to switch the couple thousand RpMs into tens of thousands of rpms for the blower so the opposite should be true to run an alternator or generator.

Oh and I said Subaru cause its basically Subaru's engine with Toyota technology lol.

[Synack]

Do you even leaf-blower turbo, bro?

[Chasedown]

Oh I did a lil research using a electric motor to drive the car(instead of forced induction) in addition to the regular engine would be a lot more performance and better economy. The 2.5 in my 03 legacy makes 165/165 add a crappy 2nd gen Prius motor which makes 80/153 and weighs about 65 pounds
And you got 245hp and 318lb ft. That is about 20 HP below the last wrx but a lil more torque and more than likely better fuel economy too.... I picked the 2nd gen Prius cause its the lightest I could find cheap... the first gen had less HP but almost double the torque lol. Just food for thought I guess. I would love an affordable performance hybrid that doesn't need plugged in.

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by Chasedown

Oh I did a lil research using a electric motor to drive the car(instead of forced induction) in addition to the regular engine would be a lot more performance and better economy. The 2.5 in my 03 legacy makes 165/165 add a crappy 2nd gen Prius motor which makes 80/153 and weighs about 65 pounds
And you got 245hp and 318lb ft. That is about 20 HP below the last wrx but a lil more torque and more than likely better fuel economy too.... I picked the 2nd gen Prius cause its the lightest I could find cheap... the first gen had less HP but almost double the torque lol. Just food for thought I guess. I would love an affordable performance hybrid that doesn't need plugged in.

Toyota built a prototype, new MR-2 that is a hybrid a while ago but I'm not sure if they will ever build it.

Both front wheels were electrically driven while a turbocharged inline-4 was driving the rears. Of course, you did mention "affordable". It's unlikely that this car would be very affordable should they ever build it.

IMHO, if you were to combine electric and mechanical energy to provide power to a car, this is the way to go with current technology. Blowing air with an electric compressor will never be a viable option until its efficiency is higher than a mechanical compressor like a supercharger.

Scott

[Chasedown]

Originally Posted by naikaidriver

Toyota built a prototype, new MR-2 that is a hybrid a while ago but I'm not sure if they will ever build it.

Both front wheels were electrically driven while a turbocharged inline-4 was driving the rears. Of course, you did mention "affordable". It's unlikely that this car would be very affordable should they ever build it.

IMHO, if you were to combine electric and mechanical energy to provide power to a car, this is the way to go with current technology. Blowing air with an electric compressor will never be a viable option until its efficiency is higher than a mechanical compressor like a supercharger.

Scott

Doesn't seem like it should be hard Toyota is selling or leading their tech for hybrids to everyone so I don't see why more companies are not simply adding a small batterypack and motor to their cars yeah your adding let's say 500 pounds but your increasing power and mpgs. I dunno seems like everyone wants all power or everyone wants retardedly slow mpg getters.... no one wants the in between

[Robftss]

So.... before all start to flame me, please see my website on my e-supercharger builds.

www.phantomsuperchargers.com (there is a link to a long time skeptic who tested my units)

I'm looking at doing an FR-S/BRZ since it is a good platform for needing more torque. The previous vehicles I've done are either MAF only or AFM type, both easily accept 3-5 psi of non-parasitic boost with no tuning and using high octane pump gas. I know the FRS/BRZ has both MAF and MAP sensors, does anyone have any experience as to how the ECU will use/ ignore these two sensors @ WOT ? I have done a Honda 1.8L with both types of sensors, it required a 5th injector to correct AFR's. Thanks! Rob

[qoncept]

If you're getting in to adding additional batteries, I think an electric motor driving the wheels would be a lot more efficient than an electric turbine. Instead of compressing additional air in to the intake (which you're going to dump more fuel into to burn), just drive the wheels.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Robftss

with no tuning and using high octane pump gas. I know the FRS/BRZ has both MAF and MAP sensors, does anyone have any experience as to how the ECU will use/ ignore these two sensors @ WOT ? I have done a Honda 1.8L with both types of sensors, it required a 5th injector to correct AFR's. Thanks! Rob

The solution is tuning.. not hacks. We can reflash our ECUs to adjust timing and fuel for under $1000.

[Robftss]

The batteries are two small 12 volt SLA's. They are capable of running a ~ 5 HP brushless motor which translates into ~ 30 more engine HP and typically a torque increase of 30%-40%. Yes, it uses fuel to match the extra air for the additional HP/TQ just like all forced induction.

An electric hybrid drive like you are referring to is well.... a Prius !

I'm just curious in the MAF/MAP set-up and whether I can get away without a tune similar to my other cars.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by Robftss

An electric hybrid drive like you are referring to is well.... a Prius !

Or an NSX.

I'm just curious in the MAF/MAP set-up and whether I can get away without a tune similar to my other cars.

You could make modest gains without tuning but to really see any big gains and to get the full potential out of the work you've done a tune is absolutely the way to go.

[Robftss]

I agree that tuning is required if the AFR's and timing is pulled, in that case I'll seek ECUtek or others. However, knowing if someone has specific experience as the the 'overhead' in this application regarding the MAF/MAP question.
I suppose 'modest gain' needs to be defined, my MAF/AFM projects gained 30-40% TQ and 20-25% HP. The important thing is that fuel and timing are with in range during the boosting activation.

[mid_life_crisis]

Remember guys, electric turbos work like nitrous shots. They aren't always on. They only kick in when you floor it so the batteries aren't huge.