follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-19-2022, 01:57 PM   #43
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,259
Thanks: 18,359
Thanked 16,453 Times in 7,446 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonho View Post
Its odd that it ran fan the whole time we had it on the old ECU and tabbed gears then when we rebuild it runs but shows 18* advanced on intake cams. My theory is someone redid timing before we owned it did a replacement ECU tabbed gears and had the intake cams off a tooth then on startup thats how it learned it??
I'm surprised it ran like that at all without throwing a code.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2022, 02:51 PM   #44
Ultramaroon
extra what?
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 32,087
Thanks: 52,530
Thanked 36,813 Times in 19,087 Posts
Mentioned: 1111 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
those are views of first-gen and second-gen sensor outputs. The polarity reversal is solely a function of switching from valleys to hills. I wonder if the ecu can learn to compensate for the change in one direction. ...one way trip for the initial position values. I think that's what they're called.
I don't know if I'm writing in Sanskrit but this is almost certainly what happened. Old ECU can read output of tabs and adjusts IPV table accordingly. I'll guess that it ran like shit but would have to work out the numbers to verify.

Once the ECU adjusts to tabs, switching back throws the measured discrepancy out too far for the servo system to pass the initialization test. That's when the zero value is reported, the system gives up, and it throws the p001(6-9) codes.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
jonho (12-19-2022), NoHaveMSG (12-19-2022)
Old 12-19-2022, 03:52 PM   #45
jonho
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Utah
Posts: 24
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
it was running pretty good I think. On a Mustang Dyno was 260hp and 217tq with 91 octane at 5lbs of boost. We will see how it does with a good build and lower compression in a week or 2 after some break in miles.
jonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2022, 04:23 PM   #46
DarkPira7e
Rust bucket enthusiast
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 3,215
Thanked 4,105 Times in 2,052 Posts
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonho View Post
it was running pretty good I think. On a Mustang Dyno was 260hp and 217tq with 91 octane at 5lbs of boost. We will see how it does with a good build and lower compression in a week or 2 after some break in miles.
You are going to lose a good amount of power if you lower compression, please keep that in mind.
__________________
Turbo FR-S Build - Build Thread
JDL EL Recirc manifold, Boostlab BL58x Turbo w/ T51R, 17x9 ARC-8, IAG block
DarkPira7e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2022, 04:50 PM   #47
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,259
Thanks: 18,359
Thanked 16,453 Times in 7,446 Posts
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
I don't know if I'm writing in Sanskrit but this is almost certainly what happened. Old ECU can read output of tabs and adjusts IPV table accordingly. I'll guess that it ran like shit but would have to work out the numbers to verify.

Once the ECU adjusts to tabs, switching back throws the measured discrepancy out too far for the servo system to pass the initialization test. That's when the zero value is reported, the system gives up, and it throws the p001(6-9) codes.
I think you are right, I am just still surprised it can learn it. I thought the difference in cam positions sensors and gears was one of the issues swapping a facelift engine into pre-facelift along with the different crank position sensor and reluctor wheel.
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Ultramaroon (12-19-2022)
Old 12-19-2022, 05:09 PM   #48
jonho
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Utah
Posts: 24
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
You are going to lose a good amount of power if you lower compression, please keep that in mind.
Yes if we kept it the same but doing other upgrades and a 3port pretty similar build to yours actually and will be on flex fuel.
jonho is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jonho For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (12-19-2022)
Old 12-19-2022, 07:03 PM   #49
Ultramaroon
extra what?
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 32,087
Thanks: 52,530
Thanked 36,813 Times in 19,087 Posts
Mentioned: 1111 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonho View Post
it was running pretty good I think. On a Mustang Dyno was 260hp and 217tq with 91 octane at 5lbs of boost. We will see how it does with a good build and lower compression in a week or 2 after some break in miles.
If that valve timing isn't stock, be careful. May have been tuned for peak performance with offset angles, and not noticing the deviation from typical values. Not sure. Just things that I'd sweat.


edit:wait, nvm. new ecu duh
__________________

Last edited by Ultramaroon; 12-19-2022 at 08:30 PM.
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2022, 07:11 PM   #50
Ultramaroon
extra what?
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 32,087
Thanks: 52,530
Thanked 36,813 Times in 19,087 Posts
Mentioned: 1111 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG View Post
I think you are right, I am just still surprised it can learn it. I thought the difference in cam positions sensors and gears was one of the issues swapping a facelift engine into pre-facelift along with the different crank position sensor and reluctor wheel.
I'm equally surprised. I knew the cam sensors were the same but still... wow.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
jonho (12-20-2022)
Old 12-20-2022, 06:27 PM   #51
jonho
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Utah
Posts: 24
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultramaroon View Post
I'm equally surprised. I knew the cam sensors were the same but still... wow.
so really it would just learn if the change was 5v or 0v a dip or a peak. I would see how it could learn that everything else being the same.
jonho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2022, 01:37 AM   #52
Ultramaroon
extra what?
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 32,087
Thanks: 52,530
Thanked 36,813 Times in 19,087 Posts
Mentioned: 1111 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonho View Post
so really it would just learn if the change was 5v or 0v a dip or a peak. I would see how it could learn that everything else being the same.
The old ECU triggers on the negative-going part of the waveform. The signal from the tabbed reluctor has a negative-going part but it's at the end of the pulse, not the beginning.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2022, 10:59 AM   #53
jonho
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Drives: 2013 FRS
Location: Utah
Posts: 24
Thanks: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Well so far so good have 600 miles on it issue free! Thanks for the help understanding what was going on with it!
jonho is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jonho For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (12-22-2022), Ultramaroon (12-22-2022), x808drifter (12-23-2022)
 
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing Chain cover revisions / changes 2013-2020 FrickingReallySlow Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 0 09-21-2021 05:10 PM
Issue With Inlet Camshaft Timing Distributor (reference from Reddit post) MJones_RB Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 9 08-22-2019 04:00 PM
Cam position - timing issue. cab33 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 3 07-01-2018 11:52 AM
Timing chain issue? Hardpack Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 14 01-10-2016 11:25 PM
FT86Cup Round 4: WSIR 6/16/2013. Only $100 w/ timing! CSG Mike Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 47 06-24-2013 05:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.