Lightest Brakes or BBK?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by celica73

Does your math account for any brake cooling with the stock brakes. I haven't seen many accounts of people running brake ducts. How does that change the equation?



huh? What is the $110x12 line? Are you doing front and rear rotors with stock brakes, but only front rotors with the BBK?

I'm paying about $190/set for front race pads (Hawk or Carbotech) and $40/rotor for front rotors (Centric premium).

1 set of rotors for the BBK, 6 sets of rotors for the OEM calipers.

This is front only, and using OEM rotors. Centric Premiums crack rather quickly when used with the aggressive pads necessary to prevent fade when I drive...

Ducts for a setup like that will prevent fade, but not really extend life. Under less rigorous use, they will improve brake life as well.

Depending on the wheel/tire setup, ducting may be a bit difficult to put in...

[Slartibartfast]

Thanks for putting this list together OP.

Perhaps @JRitt can fill in some of the blanks for the AP Racing kits. There are four different AP kits for the front and one for the rear.

The Formula kit you have listed above, is that the 6 piston, or 4?

I will be doing the smaller of the two formula kits when I can find it in my budget. Rims first though. I was hoping to have the formula kit this summer, but it's looking more and more like next spring.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

The Formula kit you have listed above, is that the 6 piston, or 4?

6. The 4 piston caliper weighs closer to ~5lbs and I don't recall the rotor weight off hand.

EDIT: Here they are

http://www.essexpartsblog.com/news/N...-brake-systems

5.86lbs for the caliper. Bracket will add some weight.

Originally Posted by JRitt

Hi Guys,
Update...please see caliper pics below with weights. The CP6628 calipers in these systems weigh in at roughly 5.86 lbs. each. Add in another 2 lbs. for the brackets, and you're looking at about 8 lbs. The OEM calipers & bracket weigh 11.6 lbs. Total weight savings on the caliper are going to be at minimum 3 lbs. per side. Discs should shave a few pounds per side as well. So we may be in the minus 6-7 lbs. range per front corner of the car...
[IMG ]http://www.essexpartsblog.com/media//CP6628_Red_Scales_resize.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG ]http://www.essexpartsblog.com/media//CP6628_black_Scales_resize.jpg[/IMG]

http://www.essexparts.com/shop/compl...43mm-disc.html
"The aluminum disc hats have a natural anodized finish, and the complete disc assembly weighs in at only 13.8 lbs."

[swift996]

If you want light mine were only 16.7lbs for rotors and calipers:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32594

[Turdinator]

I have a set of stock rears at home that I can weigh for you after work. Discs and calipers. I do remember the rear calipers feeling very light.

These will be the same spec as the US cars and the ones off the upper spec models outside of the US. Just thought I'd mention that for clarity.

[JRitt]

In terms of weight reduction, our front Sprint Kit is the way to go. It is one of the lightest options available, saving 10 lbs. per front corner. It is also the most fully designed/developed, and integrates perfectly with the FT86. When piecing together a brake kit, it takes time, money, and know-how. We look at our Sprint Kit as having already accomplished what the OP is attempting to do. We went through the AP Racing parts bin, selected the lightest components that would still get the job done for heavy use by 95% of our potential customers (the other 5% can buy our Endurance Kit), and properly & thoroughly designed a brake kit that is a breeze to bolt up to the car. I've seen many, many customers over the years buy bits and pieces, and piece them together on the car. In most cases it's time consuming, frustrating, and what they end up with is never quite as effective as a fully produced kit such as the one we're selling. In many cases, they just sell off all the bits and buy our kit in the end. They almost always tell me, "I should have just bought your kit in the first place." Piecing together a quality kit can be done, but it's usually far more work than people initially realize. That's my main point.

As for the rear brakes, you run into diminishing returns. We took a long hard look at a lightweight rear solution, but you're fighting a few things. The OEM rear caliper is lighter than the front, so there's not a lot of weight to save short of going with a tiny two piston opposed caliper. The OEM disc is heavy in back, but it is a drum in hat parking brake. That means if you want to keep the parking brake (which 95% of our customers do), then you have to use a disc with an ID large enough to clear the parking brake. We looked at what could design and produce, but determined that A) There aren't enough people willing to ditch their parking brake, and B) The kit would likely cost more to produce than our front kit, and most people don't want to pay $2500+ for a rear kit that kills the parking brake. Therefore we recommend putting on some rear SS lines, pads, and calling it a day.

As for running costs and the value of a big brake kit, I came up with a two year payoff. If you plan to keep your car and track it for two years or more, you ultimately will save money by buying our Sprint Kit vs. running OEM-sized equipment. I've recently had a number of customers buy our Sprint Kit who said they've been tracking their OEM-style brake parts over the past year, and it's adding up fast. The pads are more expensive in the OEM shape vs. our kit's pad shape, and they're 50% thinner (see pics below)! Since they're running on a smaller, thinner, less-efficient OEM type disc, they're also running much hotter. That means you're burning up more expensive pads at a much faster rate. To top it off, our pad shape comes in every flavor under the sun, so you have more pad compound choices depending on your intended usage. Check out this blog post I did on Big Brake Kit benefits you may not have considered. Thanks.

Here is the pad in our Sprint Kit with a 15mm thick friction puck. Below it is the OEM pad, which only has a 10mm thick friction puck. Despite being 50% thicker, the pads for our kit are cheaper than the OEM shape!




Here is the OEM disc vs. the disc in our Sprint Kit. Now which one of these do you think runs cooler and lasts longer?!?!


Finally, here are the final weight differences for our entire brake corner vs. OEM. Top is stock, bottom is our Sprint Kit...just over 10 lbs. per side.




These are my experiences after selling big brake kits to thousands of customers over the past 10 years! Hopefully these thoughts will save you some time, stress, and money.:happy0180:

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

I have a set of stock rears at home that I can weigh for you after work. Discs and calipers. I do remember the rear calipers feeling very light.

These will be the same spec as the US cars and the ones off the upper spec models outside of the US. Just thought I'd mention that for clarity.

I have all of the OEM brake component weights with pics in my "official component weights and weight reduction" thread...they're on the first page.:happy0180:

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by celica73

Does your math account for any brake cooling with the stock brakes. I haven't seen many accounts of people running brake ducts. How does that change the equation?

That's a good point. Most of our Sprint Kit customers are running without a brake duct cooling kit, and aren't having any temperature related issues. That saves a few hundred $ vs. buying a duct setup to run with the OEM brakes. A duct kit would also add weight, a bit of complication/potential for problems (those hoses tear, kink, slip off, etc.), and you likely have to kill or relocate your wiper washer bottle to install ducts.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If only getting a BBK to fit on a s2k were easy...

What makes it hard on the S2k? Combination of wheel offset of running 255 squared tires?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ayau

What makes it hard on the S2k? Combination of wheel offset of running 255 squared tires?

Ultra high offset, which leads to bbk unfriendly face designs.

17x9 +63 is the most common size used...

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ultra high offset, which leads to bbk unfriendly face designs.

17x9 +63 is the most common size used...

Dat....convex?

[JRitt]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ultra high offset, which leads to bbk unfriendly face designs.

17x9 +63 is the most common size used...

Amen...Wheel fitment is horrendous on the S2k. I've been part of the design process on probably several hundred different big brake kit applications over the years, and the S2000 is one of the absolute worst in terms of wheel fit.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by JRitt

Amen...Wheel fitment is horrendous on the S2k. I've been part of the design process on probably several hundred different big brake kit applications over the years, and the S2000 is one of the absolute worst in terms of wheel fit.

People have no idea how excited we get when we discover a wheel that clears the S2k's Sprint kit...

Dat clearance!

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by JRitt

I have all of the OEM brake component weights with pics in my "official component weights and weight reduction" thread...they're on the first page.:happy0180:

Muchly appreciated. I didn't get a chance to weight mine last night.