Upgrading from RCE Yellow AutoX setup to coilovers... questions

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Weird question: anyone know which of these is the narrowest spring/springperch? Probably going to 17x9 +45 RPF1's and spring perch clearance with a good 3* of front camber is somewhat important. Won't necessarily change my top choice list but I'm still curious.

Honestly really liking the fortune 510's right now, but the RCE's are basically tied. I like the more simple adjustability of the 510's since I do so many mountain drives right now.

Anything with a 2.5" id spring or less should be fine, after all +35 clears stock struts so you're only hunting for 10mm more clearance, about half an inch, which coming from 90mm springs and perches, boom, you're there with just about every aftermarket coilover running a linear spring.

With the 45s you'll rub the wheels on the inside at full lock, it clears with a 5mm spacer but I know that's sketchy on stock studs, a 3mm might be enough but idk, you could always just be conscious and not go full lock when driving around on the 9s.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

HKS Hypermax SP (the more aggressive ones, height and damping adjustable): ~$1600 with camber plates included

Ohlin's Road and Track's: ~$2125 + TBD camber plates ($350ish?)
>do these even come with camber plates? How many clicks are they adjustable? Honestly I have had more trouble finding concise information in these than I should...
About tied with:
RCE Tarmac 2's plus TBD camber plates: ~$2650

Depends your style and the car usage. Will you use the car only for canyon driving or also for autox/track? Do you prefer the car more flat and do you fill more confident like that? As others mentioned, Ohlins have softer spring rates and will give a considerable body roll. This does not mean that they will NOT grip. You'll just ride more on the tire sidewalls and if you are doing many laps, your tires will eventually give up because of higher temperatures.

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Please tag or quote me in responses so I make sure to check them

Done

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

With the 45s you'll rub the wheels on the inside at full lock, it clears with a 5mm spacer but I know that's sketchy on stock studs, a 3mm might be enough but idk, you could always just be conscious and not go full lock when driving around on the 9s.

Avoiding full wheel lock on 45's hasn't been enough for me to stop rubbing. Just had an AutoX event yesterday and noticed some pretty bad tire rub on the inside of the fender liner. Raised the ride height 1/8" and added a 3mm wheel spacer and will see if that helps. Have a feeling I may need to raise the ride height more, but don't feel like getting another alignment anytime soon.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Avoiding full wheel lock on 45's hasn't been enough for me to stop rubbing. Just had an AutoX event yesterday and noticed some pretty bad tire rub on the inside of the fender liner. Raised the ride height 1/8" and added a 3mm wheel spacer and will see if that helps. Have a feeling I may need to raise the ride height more, but don't feel like getting another alignment anytime soon.

Extended studs in the front are pretty easy, maybe worth the work to run a bit more spacer.

[Keenercarguy]

I already have ARP extended studs on all four corners

[Keenercarguy]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Avoiding full wheel lock on 45's hasn't been enough for me to stop rubbing. Just had an AutoX event yesterday and noticed some pretty bad tire rub on the inside of the fender liner. Raised the ride height 1/8" and added a 3mm wheel spacer and will see if that helps. Have a feeling I may need to raise the ride height more, but don't feel like getting another alignment anytime soon.

How low are you? What coils/springrate/front-camber?
I'm likely not dropping the BRZ more than 1.25 inches, I'll be running 235/40/17's Z2*specs in the front for steering feel (245's in the back), and probably about 2.8* of front camber. I don't think I'll rub with those specs

[Keenercarguy]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Depends your style and the car usage. Will you use the car only for canyon driving or also for autox/track? Do you prefer the car more flat and do you fill more confident like that? As others mentioned, Ohlins have softer spring rates and will give a considerable body roll. This does not mean that they will NOT grip. You'll just ride more on the tire sidewalls and if you are doing many laps, your tires will eventually give up because of higher temperatures.

I do really like having a flat car honestly. I'll mainly be using the car for mountain runs and AutoX currently. HPDE starting next spring

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Weird question: anyone know which of these is the narrowest spring/springperch? Probably going to 17x9 +45 RPF1's and spring perch clearance with a good 3* of front camber is somewhat important. Won't necessarily change my top choice list but I'm still curious.

Honestly really liking the fortune 510's right now, but the RCE's are basically tied. I like the more simple adjustability of the 510's since I do so many mountain drives right now.

I can put my finger between the tire and the springs, running 17x9 +35 wheels with 245/40 RS4 tires and around -3.7 degrees of camber. This is on the FA510 with swift springs. I believe any 2.5" spring should have similar clearance so I think you will be fine, at worst, a 5mm spacer would be enough.

[Keenercarguy]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

I can put my finger between the tire and the springs, running 17x9 +35 wheels with 245/40 RS4 tires and around -3.7 degrees of camber. This is on the FA510 with swift springs. I believe any 2.5" spring should have similar clearance so I think you will be fine, at worst, a 5mm spacer would be enough.

Thanks!
What springrates did you go with on the 510's? How do you like them?

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

How low are you? What coils/springrate/front-camber?

I was dropped 1.5" from stock on RCE Tarmac 2's with the 400/400 spring rates. Using the crash bolts to get -2.8 camber up front.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Avoiding full wheel lock on 45's hasn't been enough for me to stop rubbing. Just had an AutoX event yesterday and noticed some pretty bad tire rub on the inside of the fender liner. Raised the ride height 1/8" and added a 3mm wheel spacer and will see if that helps. Have a feeling I may need to raise the ride height more, but don't feel like getting another alignment anytime soon.

5mm spacer and mine don't rub under any circumstances to my knowledge. I would love to know if the +3 is enough though.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by Keenercarguy

Thanks!
What springrates did you go with on the 510's? How do you like them?

I went with 6kg/8kg (front/rear). With rebound set equal between the front and rear, the car understeers, so I cannot imagine what people going with equal rates front/rear or even higher front are experiencing (understeer city?). With around 2 to 3 clicks harder in the rear, the car is very neutral (slight understeer under throttle, rear moves slightly under turn-in with brake small brake pressure). They are a godsend on tracks with smooth alphast. You can attack the berms too, provided they are not huge, but I seem to be faster barely clipping them rather than going all over them (according to lap times). On very bumpy tracks, I need to run them softer or the car hops over bumps. Having rebound cranked to the max makes quick transitions really easy, you dont have to "wait" for the car to switch around basically.

Driver skill aside, I run similar times on 245 RS4 tires to one of the more experienced drivers in our group, who is running RCE T2s in 255 nittos NT01. His car seems better composed going over berms and big bumps, I have better exit speed (from the apex and on), it seems like I have more traction coming out of corners, or he is leaving traction on the table.

Edit: stock sway bars, as I think its worth mentionning when comparing suspension setups.

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

I went with 6kg/8kg (front/rear). With rebound set equal between the front and rear, the car understeers, so I cannot imagine what people going with equal rates front/rear or even higher front are experiencing (understeer city?). With around 2 to 3 clicks harder in the rear, the car is very neutral (slight understeer under throttle, rear moves slightly under turn-in with brake small brake pressure). They are a godsend on tracks with smooth alphast. You can attack the berms too, provided they are not huge, but I seem to be faster barely clipping them rather than going all over them (according to lap times). On very bumpy tracks, I need to run them softer or the car hops over bumps. Having rebound cranked to the max makes quick transitions really easy, you dont have to "wait" for the car to switch around basically.

Even spring rates and larger front bars are usually better for Autocross due to the very quick transitions. From what I've seen track guys prefer more rear bar and/or spring rates. I guess a good Autocross car doesn't necessary make a good track car and vice versa.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smg1138

Even spring rates and larger front bars are usually better for Autocross due to the very quick transitions. From what I've seen track guys prefer more rear bar and/or spring rates. I guess a good Autocross car doesn't necessary make a good track car and vice versa.

I'm not convinced of that yet. (After all, there was an article by Pobst with a BRZ on RCE T2's with 400/400 who loved it on track)

It seems like many fast autox guys (who don't broadcast their setup online) are stiffening the rear a touch, sometimes via swaybars, maybe not enough to compensate for the motion ratios, but I think the square spring rates will fade out of favor for competition use.

Even spring rates is a solid starting point but I'd be surprised if it was the ultimate setup. I can feel the rear lagging over road bumps, it can't be the most planted setup out there.

The stupid amounts of testing I would do if I had time and money