Why Scion FR-S Sales Have Plunged

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Part of the reason is changes in the car. The 2013 and 2015 base models are not the same. They've modified the suspension, changed out the base radio for one with a touch-screen, and added the shark-fin antenna (ones I know of the top of my head). None of that is "free" or probably an even swap since it means more "stuff" in the background including R&D, parts inventory, etc.

I always figured that with an operation as planned and mapped out as car production that ongoing development costs would be covered, a different suspension component or bolt costs at most pennies difference on each unit (of course not speaking towards the several tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on changing the engineering documentation and tracking, which should be budgeted for even without a price increase).

I could give two flying fucks about touch screens and kneepads, one of the reasons I'm glad I got an early edition. With dealerships slapping on leather and stickers and trunk mats for hundreds if not thousands of dollars they can certainly handle the added burden of a true base model that keeps the important running changes intact while maintaining the original X-factor of this car: affordability. (Of course, were discounting the Scion bullshit in this discussion)

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Inflation?

And what piece costs more on this car than it did three years ago? The factory workers certainly aren't getting paid more, the engineers sure as hell aren't, we haven't had a material shortage or external forces putting pressure on production or delivery.

Computer parts get cheaper, clothes get cheaper, hell even food is getting 'cheaper' as transportation costs decrease and we get better at growing it. (See Table 7) Hell the company I work for is lowering prices because we've gotten better at making our product even though complexity is increasing.

Originally Posted by torqdork

Eh, point of order. US production people get consistent annual increases. They don't earn as much as UAW line workers but don't receive taxpayer bailouts either. Also, Toyota has never had a layoff at any US plant.

I need a new job. /bitter ranting

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

And what piece costs more on this car than it did three years ago? The factory workers certainly aren't getting paid more, the engineers sure as hell aren't, we haven't had a material shortage or external forces putting pressure on production or delivery.

Computer parts get cheaper, clothes get cheaper, hell even food is getting 'cheaper' as transportation costs decrease and we get better at growing it. (See Table 7) Hell the company I work for is lowering prices because we've gotten better at making our product even though complexity is increasing.

Be that as it may, inflation is real in the US. The site you linked discusses CPI, which is a measure of inflation based on commonly consumed items. If everything was really getting cheaper as you said, we'd be in a period of deflation.

But you can see from the following link that the US had 0.8% inflation last year, 1.5% in 2013, 1.7% in 2012, 3.0% in 2011, etc.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com...flation-rates/

I think companies are constantly correcting for that, either by increasing prices or decreasing sizes. Whether they're actually paying more for raw materials and labor YOY, only a Toyota insider or industry expert could answer that.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Computer parts get cheaper, clothes get cheaper, hell even food is getting 'cheaper' as transportation costs decrease and we get better at growing it. (See Table 7) Hell the company I work for is lowering prices because we've gotten better at making our product even though complexity is increasing.

I need a new job. /bitter ranting

Damn it I am moving to Texas since everything is getting cheaper there! Prices on everything only go up here. Except of course the price of gas lately and now they say the low price is going to destroy Canada's economy so I would rather pay more and not go into recession!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I think companies are constantly correcting for that, either by increasing prices or decreasing sizes. Whether they're actually paying more for raw materials and labor YOY, only a Toyota insider or industry expert could answer that.

But that's the thing, most companies aren't accounting for that, cell phones, electronics, clothing, food/agriculture maintain pricing throughout their cycle and adjust for the next in a trend that either leads to lower consumer cost or an improved product.

Except cars. The 2015 Scion FR-S is in most tangible regards the same car as the one I could purchase in 2012, for $700 more, the average consumer does not have $700 extra dollars today (measure how you will) than they did a few years ago, most areas are stagnating.

You totally could have shut me down by adjusting $24.9k in 2012 to 2015 dollars, I'd lose, the car should cost $26.1k today.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/2012-do...5?amount=24955

Edit: I also love how @Tcoat thinks I live in Texas.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit: I also love how @Tcoat thinks I live in Texas.

Damn! See I should never rely on my old memory!
No idea where I came up with that from at least it wasn't Costa Rica.
Guess it is only fair since people see London on mine and automatically think England!!!!
That is ok I would rather move to Cali anyways!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I always figured that with an operation as planned and mapped out as car production that ongoing development costs would be covered

Change is never free...but as I said it could account for part of it, just like all the mandated safety "stuff" accounts for a portion of the cost difference between a the new 1969 Camaro and a 2015 Camaro, not all of it but some (substantial) portion of it.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

..You totally could have shut me down by adjusting $24.9k in 2012 to 2015 dollars, I'd lose, the car should cost $26.1k today....

And there is another portion of it. Corporate "greed" or just downright price adjustment due to anticipated vs. real warranty claims (again not free, all built into the price of the car) could also account for the remainder.

[HyperTech]

i dont care anymore, they can kill it if they want, i have mine in my garage. thats all i need.

[NOHOME]

The bottom line is that it really does not matter if the FRS is continued or not. There will always be interesting vehicles for enthusiast to chose from. Who cares who makes it?

More pertinent is the fact that very few people buy more than one sports-car in their life. It's a bucket list item that once crossed-off, is enough for most people.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

But that's the thing, most companies aren't accounting for that, cell phones, electronics, clothing, food/agriculture maintain pricing throughout their cycle and adjust for the next in a trend that either leads to lower consumer cost or an improved product.

Except cars. The 2015 Scion FR-S is in most tangible regards the same car as the one I could purchase in 2012, for $700 more, the average consumer does not have $700 extra dollars today (measure how you will) than they did a few years ago, most areas are stagnating.

You totally could have shut me down by adjusting $24.9k in 2012 to 2015 dollars, I'd lose, the car should cost $26.1k today.

http://www.in2013dollars.com/2012-do...5?amount=24955

Edit: I also love how @Tcoat thinks I live in Texas.

Haha yeah I'd thought about that, just forgot to

Inflation has slowed considerably in recent years (it used to be a constant 4% or so IIRC) but there's still positive inflation going on. If inflation is supposed to measure the decreased buying power of a dollar YOY, it would make sense that prices on items should rise slightly (or that sizes/content should decrease).

Anyway I'm not sure exactly how inflation affects the car industry apart from in general concepts. I just threw that out there as a thought, but I do think it affects labor costs (people get raises, minimum wage has risen over the years, etc.) and raw materials costs.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by HyperTech

i dont care anymore, they can kill it if they want, i have mine in my garage. thats all i need.

Man ya gotta get rid of that Sonota in your profile!!!!!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

And there is another portion of it. Corporate "greed" or just downright price adjustment due to anticipated vs. real warranty claims (again not free, all built into the price of the car) could also account for the remainder.

Every one of the fuel pumps changed for crickets adds some fraction of a cent to the tag price of the next model year!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by NOHOME

The bottom line is that it really does not matter if the FRS is continued or not. There will always be interesting vehicles for enthusiast to chose from. Who cares who makes it?

Lightweight rwd coupes are far and few between these days, especially for under 50k.

[Defuser]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Lightweight rwd coupes are far and few between these days, especially for under 50k.

YUP!

I've had more than one sportscar. Someone above posted most people only own one in their lifetime? Poppycock!

1980 Z28 Camaro - 3,494 lb.s Heavy. This isn't going to suprise anyone.

1988 RX-7 - 2,701 (not bad!)

2008 G35 Coupe - 3,485 (price to be paid for a "luxurious" interior)

I was actually suprised that the Z28 weighed about the same the G35.

Edit: By the way, the 2015 Mustang V-6 (MT) wieghs 3,526!

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Every one of the fuel pumps changed for crickets adds some fraction of a cent to the tag price of the next model year!

Guilty as charged...