E85 USERS!!! Please read, interesting stuff!

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Because this isn't my first time to see a cut open filter after E85 use

Are you saying E85 will not eat the glues, seals and lines on a vehicle designed for up to E10 only?

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by JerryMichaels7

so John and Don why do you think his did that and don's car shows no sign of anything? I am weary now cuz i was about to get the e85 n/a tune next check.

His sending unit is dirty because of dirty fuel..

Why his filter is having a issue? most likley from some additive he put in his car.

Ethanol doesn't do things like that !

John

Originally Posted by s2d4

Are you saying E85 will not eat the glues, seals and lines on a vehicle designed for up to E10 only?

Ethanol does NOT eat glue

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Visconti

Ethanol does NOT eat glue

What kind of chemical composition is the glue you are referring to?

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Visconti

His sending unit is dirty because of dirty fuel..

Why his filter is having a issue? most likley from some additive he put in his car.

Ethanol doesn't do things like that !

John



Ethanol does NOT eat glue

Plenty of ASSumptions in there, We know you have an ego and a bottom line to protect but get over yourself you don't get to choose what Ethanol does and doesn't do because it suits products you sell.

Glue...big subject...wouldn't use overwhelming statements about what does and doesn't eat glue...(did you eat glue as a kid john???)

I use Ethanol to clean adhesive (glue) off stuff all the time at work...

So where did you get the "info" about his fuel quality and additives?

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Plenty of ASSumptions in there, We know you have an ego and a bottom line to protect but get over yourself you don't get to choose what Ethanol does and doesn't do because it suits products you sell.

Glue...big subject...wouldn't use overwhelming statements about what does and doesn't eat glue...(did you eat glue as a kid john???)

I use Ethanol to clean adhesive (glue) off stuff all the time at work...

So where did you get the "info" about his fuel quality and additives?

The fuel filters that are in this car seem to be the same as the ones in the current generation STI, WRX, Forester etc, which have no problems.

Ethanol will eat anything alcohol based.. so if your glue is alcohol based.. you'll have a problem

And as I stated before, I looked into this before offering ethanol calibrations.

I'm sorry if the data Don posted busted what Robispec has shared.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

lol @SkullWorks

[robispec]

Man i wish my filter looked as good as yours we took our system apart because it started missing above 6k rpm and was getting worse. We replaced allvthe park potential issurs no changes
So we started in on the fuel system we have run over 500 gallons through our car and found the problem my scion friends were having with there cars...

Originally Posted by Don@Accelerated

So what exactly had you prematurely cutting the filter open. Maybe I missed the initial problem.

For the sake of argument I went and cut my factory filter housing up. I have 4k+ only E85 Miles basically. I have no signs of any degredation to the filter. Now it is true that over time the paper gasket will now allow heavy enough flow for the E85. I haven't run into that scenario yet. It can't be a sitting issue either because mine sat the entire winter here. I wasn't able to put many miles on it.

Have you been/or ever have used an octane booster in the car? Fuel Supplement Additive? It looks crystaline in that picture. E85 is not going to cause that.

I have pictures of my filter and it looks nothing like yours, and doesn't show the slightest sign of any issues yet. My car sat all winter with

Lets discuss further

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Visconti

The fuel filters that are in this car seem to be the same as the ones in the current generation STI, WRX, Forester etc, which have no problems.

SEEMS the same...go to market , cool motto

Ethanol will eat anything alcohol based.. so if your glue is alcohol based.. you'll have a problem

Or a whole list of other adhesives that aren't alcohol based...yes your statement is true but it is also deceiving, a glue doesn't have to be alcohol based to be broken down in the presence of alcohol.

And as I stated before, I looked into this before offering ethanol calibrations.

As comforting as that is...it isn't, I know you didn't pull the hose and subject it to months of submersion tests or even bother to look up the SAE required testing for E-85 compatibility of fuel components...so lets not act like you did,

I'm sorry if the data Don posted busted what Robispec has shared.

We simply have 2 data points, I have been running E-85 for months (on the AEM standalone you insist doesn't work) and had no issue so, believe me I would much rather E-85 be a non-issue than a huge issue, but im not ignorant enough to put the problem on a shelf because one filter looks good and one looks like shit.



Robi also fills up in California...It may be an issue with the cali blend gas only? it may be a flow increase issue, (though Don's car has seen higher specific flow I assume)

There is always a potential for manufacturer defects or changes in supplier of the filter...lots of possibilities.

[Visconti]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

SEEMS the same...go to market , cool motto




Or a whole list of other adhesives that aren't alcohol based...yes your statement is true but it is also deceiving, a glue doesn't have to be alcohol based to be broken down in the presence of alcohol.





As comforting as that is...it isn't, I know you didn't pull the hose and subject it to months of submersion tests or even bother to look up the SAE required testing for E-85 compatibility of fuel components...so lets not act like you did,



We simply have 2 data points, I have been running E-85 for months (on the AEM standalone you insist doesn't work) and had no issue so, believe me I would much rather E-85 be a non-issue than a huge issue, but im not ignorant enough to put the problem on a shelf because one filter looks good and one looks like shit.



Robi also fills up in California...It may be an issue with the cali blend gas only? it may be a flow increase issue, (though Don's car has seen higher specific flow I assume)

There is always a potential for manufacturer defects or changes in supplier of the filter...lots of possibilities.

Anything is possible, but not the first time I've looked at a filter inside the gas tank on a BRZ / FRS / GT86

So again, I'm not concerned

I'd be more concerned with running that AEM lol

-John

[pixel67]

Aren't we looking at a single instance of failure in a car that has had the absolute shit beat out of it? (high flow E-85, boosted, 8k track use,5k on E-85, and i saw mention of lucas fuel injector cleaner)... This is worst case scenario stuff here. Not saying that @robispec doesn't take care of his ride as he does so in ways i could only dream of.

Now, if all of the current E-85 users suddenly jump on board and start posting pics of their disintegrated filters then i would hit the panic button. For all we know, one of Robi's buds pissed in the tank after a long night of a Krystals and a bag of cheetos chased down with Everclear.:happy0180:

Just saying it's only a single instance and it seems we are jumping to conclusions before all of the variables are even defined let alone understood...

[brichard0625]

for now im going to lay off of e85 until further notice but this was last video I took of me doing an e85 pull. going to miss it
this is with spare tire removed, back seats removed, and all tools removed from the trunk...going up hill a little in the begging and then leveled out towards the end. 0-60 in 5.8 and 1/8mile in 9.0 secs @80.5mph according to torque app
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gwRKjowrRc&list=UUHe66qjLawxdL8lELNUvXKA& index=1"]Scion FR-S e85 0-90 run - YouTube[/ame]

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by s2d4

What kind of chemical composition is the glue you are referring to?

@Visconti
Feel free to answer this question.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Visconti

I'd be more concerned with running that AEM lol

-John

If I were you I'd be concerned too...it takes a real tuner to make it work...

[Shankenstein]

Did my Master's degree on flex fuel control systems. Sorry fellows... it's pretty unlikely that there's a conspiracy afoot.

Between 1990-1993, most companies were already developing systems that were safe to run ethanol. By the OBDII refresh (MY1996), most manufacturers had already spec'ed the tanks, lines, filters, injectors to withstand ethanol. Some manufacturers designed for slow wear (just enough to support E10), but most chose materials that did not (in any reasonable time period) degrade in E100.

The fueling control systems were still archaic, since closed-loop fueling was just reaching the stage of using HEGO switching to keep the catalyst cycling (oxidation and reduction at ~1 Hz). These type of systems would fall back to fail-safe maps and waste a ton of fuel. Around MY2000, most manufacturers moved to UEGO based systems which allowed you to generate adaptive A/F ratio targets. It took a few years for these to get implemented, but most had multiple maps pre-programmed. I was reading about Subaru strategies a few years ago, and they use Map "A" and "B" which could be switched between based on feedback about current and expected performance (generally centered around knock and exhaust temps). Regardless, the systems were capable of storing and flowing E85 for the entirity of the car's life. Ethanol eats alot of modern materials... but they currently use materials that dissolve VERY slowly (if at all).