Can steering feel, tactility, be improved? Without sacrificing adjustability?

[DriftEightSix]

If the rack is electronic why can't we use something like ecutek to modify it to make it a stiffer feeling?

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by DriftEightSix

If the rack is electronic why can't we use something like ecutek to modify it to make it a stiffer feeling?

There is a difference between "stiffness" (or steering effort) and feel.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by EarlQHan

but that's the only difference between the 991 911 and GT3's steering.

I beg to differ.
Different tyres, bushes and springs. I'm not sure about the suspension geo.

Originally Posted by wparsons

I rolled mine out of a driveway without starting it and it's WAY tougher to steer than any other car I've ever owned rolling out of the same driveway.

This.

Maybe these solid steering rack bushes would assist:
http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...oducts_id=1260
http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...oducts_id=1270
Review for the aluminium bushes here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27727

[Vracer111]

TiC steering rack bushings do help give the car more feel of what the tires are doing...I just installed mine this weekend that I purchased from the initial group buy many months ago. Really wish I had done so sooner! Running the stock tires slightly stretched on lighweight Enkei Fujins (17x7.5 with +40mm offset) and I love how the handling is now more than ever with the bushings installed. I notice that there seems to be more front negative camber as well, which is reasonable due to the fact that the steering rack is slightly higher than it was with the stock rubber bushings - slightly pushing the tie rods up and out more. Front camber seems much closer to what the rear suspension is (with completely stock suspension/ride height.) Really makes the turn in superb and so precise in comparison to stock...

Personally, 'tire feel' is not a big deal to me, as long as the chassis is communicating the tire grip and car balance that's all I really want. That said the FRS has plenty of tire feel to me with the stock tires.

You'll need to get rid of all the isolating elements from the between the tires and steering rack if you want to feel the tires to the maximum potential of the vehicle - which means replacement of factory rubber bushings with stiffer, more rigid materials. Front control arms with spherical bearings would be the extreme way to go all out and reduce isolation points to the absolute minimum - making as direct an energy pathway from the tires to steering wheel as possible. A well engineered chassis bar would probably help out some as well.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by EarlQHan

I think everyone's overthinking this and you're not utilizing what's already there. The cleanest and best way to improve feel is to hack the PS ECU and change the algorithm. Now, how hard or easy this is is anybody's guess, but that's the only difference between the 991 911 and GT3's steering. Same rack, same PS motor, just a different setting.

I was under the impression that the 86 has the icky fluids at the time. but you mentioned changing algorithm to me in the past and a basic google search came up with this.
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_111532/article.html
It is basically is a piggyback setup and one can tailor it to what they want, not that hard to do either.

Ultimately it isn't really what I was after, I really wanted the full lock-1 turn so the suggestion of machining a new rack and pinion is a much better option.

[EarlQHan]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

I beg to differ.
Different tyres, bushes and springs. I'm not sure about the suspension geo.


This.

Maybe these solid steering rack bushes would assist:
http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...oducts_id=1260
http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...oducts_id=1270
Review for the aluminium bushes here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27727

I meant in terms of the rack. Those should help make the steering effort more direct and may improve feel, but the electric motor does damp small impurities in the road and to change the level of damping the electric motor provides will need to be done at the PS unit.

Originally Posted by s2d4

I was under the impression that the 86 has the icky fluids at the time. but you mentioned changing algorithm to me in the past and a basic google search came up with this.
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_111532/article.html
It is basically is a piggyback setup and one can tailor it to what they want, not that hard to do either.

Ultimately it isn't really what I was after, I really wanted the full lock-1 turn so the suggestion of machining a new rack and pinion is a much better option.

For quicker steering, you definitely need a new rack with a different gear ratio. This typically does make the steering heavier since there is more torque required at the steering wheel, but I wonder if the electric PS can compensate leaving the feel the same. Or if there's the possibility of overloading the motor and burning it out. I don't know and I don't think it will be an issue, but just something to ponder.

[wparsons]

The manual already states that the motor might overheat and increase steering effort in hot weather and lots of low speed driving with lots of steering, decreasing the ratio in the rack by about 30% (stock it's 1.5 turns from center to lock) will probably put too much load on the motor.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by EarlQHan

For quicker steering, you definitely need a new rack with a different gear ratio. This typically does make the steering heavier since there is more torque required at the steering wheel, but I wonder if the electric PS can compensate leaving the feel the same. Or if there's the possibility of overloading the motor and burning it out. I don't know and I don't think it will be an issue, but just something to ponder.

Part of the R&D and testing of course.

The quaife kit for AE86 and the AW11 is actually the same, sell like hot cakes worldwide... If you guys do one, I would buy it.

[Trettiosjuan]

Is it possible that the rack is stiff when brand new? Perhaps explaining my relative disappointment compared to other testimonies?

I had another car that had this effect, not much feel in the beginning, after 6000miles or so, it loosened up and really started talking to me...

[Xauterus]

I think you will find a big difference once you change to stiffer springs. A bigger front sway bar will also sharpen the steering feel. I have just got the whiteline rack mount bushes and look forward to see how much they sharpen the feel along with the perrin lower arm bushes.

As I understand the engineering of the front lower arms they wanted the car to basically under steer in initial steering then by making the bush flex it turned in better. Changing that bush should make a difference to that initial turn in softness you may be feeling.

[koevasi]

Originally Posted by Vracer111

I notice that there seems to be more front negative camber as well, which is reasonable due to the fact that the steering rack is slightly higher than it was with the stock rubber bushings - slightly pushing the tie rods up and out more.

Could you please expand on this a bit more? I thought the sizing, etc. was identical? Mine's being shipped over at the moment and hopefully I can do the install this weekend.

[Trettiosjuan]

Steering rack/rod geometry has no influence on camber, only toe in various flavours (different dynamoc situations). Let us know how the upgrade feels!

[Sarlacc]

Hej 37:an, tjänare! :-)

Are you still basing your judgement on that single test drive?
I would seriously consider doing another, in a GT86 with at least 5000km on it.
I am saying this because in my case, the steering wheel "feel" has either improved a lot or I have become more attuned to it.
Basically, I love the way my 100% stock GT86 talks to me. It's a beautifully engineered car IMHO.

[Trettiosjuan]

Tjena

Actually I did already and it didn't bother me as much as before. So now I think I will be happy with a stock set-up! I guess one will adapt, I also suspect it was because the first car was so new it was a bit stiff, the latest one had some miles already, bit hard to tell for sure...

Although I would want to try the steering rack bushings, seems too easy mod to not try...