Eibach Multi-Pro R2 Coilover Review

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

For you guys getting stiffer springs, are you guys just going with what you feel, think, or using a wheel/spring rate calculator?

I drive by feel, and validate with math/data.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

Cool. I'll probably have to dial them in and find out if I want to mess with spring rates.

Btw, does changing spring rates effect the damping? I always thought one effects the other and manufacturers always have that in mind.

Higher spring rates generally require less compression damping and more rebound damping.

The effect of rebound will be "felt more" than compression for the most part, but both are fairly apparent once you educate yourself on dialing in dampers.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Higher spring rates generally require less compression damping and more rebound damping.

The effect of rebound will be "felt more" than compression for the most part, but both are fairly apparent once you educate yourself on dialing in dampers.

^^^

FWIW I'm currently running one down from max rebound, and 3 or 4 compression. I haven't spent much time on them yet as I haven't had enough free time on a weekend to mess with them (and to a point, the energy/care to mess with them, works been too crazy lately).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

^^^

FWIW I'm currently running one down from max rebound, and 3 or 4 compression. I haven't spent much time on them yet as I haven't had enough free time on a weekend to mess with them (and to a point, the energy/care to mess with them, works been too crazy lately).

I'll have a chance to drive with the 10/11.5k springs probably on the 25th/26th this month., most likely.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

A more important question (which I think was Mike's point) is, just because a product is good for X car, doesn't automatically mean it will be good for Y car.

And no, that's not a reference to the Eibach's, it's a general statement. The point is that Company Z might have put a ton of R&D into the product for car X, but very little for car Y, or vice versa.

It's really just valid to compare products x, y and z for this specific chassis IMO.

Eibach does dyno their dampers, every one of them. I have my dyno sheets because they do so.

I do think with the rates that I'm running that they need more rebound, but I haven't tracked them yet so I still have no current opinion of them. And if it is, I'll get them revalved, it's not a big deal.

I disagree. For damper manufacturers, I'm not aware of one that makes a "special" damper for one specific car model that's worth buying for competition purposes. Penske's are good on Vettes or Vipers, Konis are good on the models they support, Motons/AST the same.

My point was, springs are springs.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I disagree. For damper manufacturers, I'm not aware of one that makes a "special" damper for one specific car model that's worth buying for competition purposes. Penske's are good on Vettes or Vipers, Konis are good on the models they support, Motons/AST the same.

My point was, springs are springs.

I'd have to disagree with that statement...

Gasoline is gasoline, right? To most people it doesn't matter, but to some it does...

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Penske's are good on Vettes or Vipers, Konis are good on the models they support, Motons/AST the same.

For the most part. Ohlins, AST, Koni, KW, Bilstein, etc...all have their typcial "feel" that is similar for different cars and are generally good stuff. But, and I'm not sure if I'm reading what you wrote wrong, a lot of the "good stuff" for this car is specially designed for this car and not a one size fits all damper. A lot of the lower-end dampers take that approach and as you can imagine it's not as good as a coilover that's designed for this car.

Originally Posted by Robbie

My point was, springs are springs.

I disagree with this. There are some really crappy coilover springs out there.

- andy

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I disagree. For damper manufacturers, I'm not aware of one that makes a "special" damper for one specific car model that's worth buying for competition purposes. Penske's are good on Vettes or Vipers, Konis are good on the models they support, Motons/AST the same.

My point was, springs are springs.

So you are trying to say that Penske's for a Vette are valved exactly the same as for a CRX? I'm not talking about the process of making them or the technology involved. That's like saying an OEM Showa is the same as a N1 race Showa. Sure, they may have the same body, same mounting, same type of shims, etc but they are valved drastically differently. Penske's are a bad choice for this comparison really due to their nature.. but..

Many race shocks may start with generic valving, but anyone dumping Penske money is likely custom valving anyways. For mass produced mid-market dampers that's not as likely and I'd be willing to bet that an R2 for these cars won't have the same valving as it would for an S197 mustang, etc.

As for springs, go test some Swift springs and then some cheap eBay springs and see how close they both match the specified spring rate.

At the end of the day, a coilover manufacturer can do research to pick good valving and spring rates for an OTS unit, or they can guess. Just because they do research on car X doesn't mean they did so with car Y, although that really relates more to the non-race specific shocks of course, which would include Eibach's offerings.

I couldn't find any other OTS Eibach dynos to compare mine to, just the Evasive ones which were obviously drastically different.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

For the most part. Ohlins, AST, Koni, KW, Bilstein, etc...all have their typcial "feel" that is similar for different cars and are generally good stuff. But, and I'm not sure if I'm reading what you wrote wrong, a lot of the "good stuff" for this car is specially designed for this car and not a one size fits all damper. A lot of the lower-end dampers take that approach and as you can imagine it's not as good as a coilover that's designed for this car.



I disagree with this. There are some really crappy coilover springs out there.

- andy

Yes, that is my point. Any good manufacturer that is desireable (as in, not 1k Chinese coilovers) makes good kits across the line. Moton doesn't have a "special sauce" damper just for Civics that it wouldn't use in other applications (as in shims, seals, shafts).

I don't see good damper/coilover companies making one application really good and the others suck. To put it a different way are your coilover kits for your STi super special from a development standpoint than your other applications?

As far as the spring comment goes, my point was that assuming the quality of the spring is the same, it doesn't matter if its in the form of a coil spring, a leaf spring or a torsion bar. It isn't going to change how I'm going to tune it. One may have a preference for one application over another due to wanting the Cg in a certain place or ease of ride height adjustability, but what you really want is a solid spring rate across the travel. To put it another way, if I had a coil spring conversion on the rear of my 944 Spec race car, it wouldn't change how I tune it over the torsion bar. I'd shoot for similar wheel rates.

[RYU]

$0.02 on springs

Features of a good spring when comparing the same size and rate springs between manufacturers.

* Spring rate consistency (i.e. matched pairs). Each spring will never be exactly the same rate but good springs are matched to be as close as possible to each other and to it's advertised rating before sold.
* Spring rate consistency upon compression. Good springs will maintain their advertised rate as close as possible to it's rating upon compression. All springs get stiffer as you compress them. Which is also why coil springs behave differently than leaf springs or even torsion bars.
* Light weight. By using better metallurgy they can create less windings and thinner spring wire diameter which cuts down on weight.

Eibach specializing in springs. Perhaps they can weigh in if i'm off base here. Springs are not just springs but are you good enough of a driver to notice?

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by RYU

$0.02 on springs

Features of a good spring when comparing the same size and rate springs between manufacturers.

* Spring rate consistency (i.e. matched pairs). Each spring will never be exactly the same rate but good springs are matched to be as close as possible to each other and to it's advertised rating before sold.
* Spring rate consistency upon compression. Good springs will maintain their advertised rate as close as possible to it's rating upon compression. All springs get stiffer as you compress them. Which is also why coil springs behave differently than leaf springs or even torsion bars.
* Light weight. By using better metallurgy they can create less windings and thinner spring wire diameter which cuts down on weight.

Eibach specializing in springs. Perhaps they can weigh in if i'm off base here. Springs are not just springs but are you good enough of a driver to notice?

Good coil springs will be at their advertised rate within a few lbs/in from 10% to 90%* of their total travel.

Crappy springs will go well beyond their advertised rates, sag, and generally suck. Often times feel much harsher than advertised.

Lighter weight is a nice bonus, but priority number 1 is that the spring actually hits close to its advertised rate for the majority of its travel.



* to be 100% honest, these percentages were mostly pulled from my ass. But it's around there. I just use Hyperco, Swift, Eibach, and KW and don't worry about it.


- Andy

[Jackson]

Andy, you're pretty spot on. Good race springs will be close to their advertised rate but also hold this rate and height race after race. A lot of our coilover springs get used for off-road and they get beat to hell! Most of our springs still test true to their height and rate even after miles and miles of abuse.

Inferior springs will lose height and once that happens the rate changes and the graph isn't as linear. Then you run into ride height issues and rate inconsistencies. Some companies advertise "more travel" or "lighter weight" or "better material" and these are all things we want. But at the end of the day if the spring can't hold its integrity all those nice marketing features become obsolete.

Attached is a random spring graph I pulled from the first test I found. Eibach tests 100% of the springs for rate, height, even side loads and coil count before they are boxed. Springs aren't just springs.

[swift996]

I installed mine - I'm just wondering if any others running them can give me some feedback.

It seems when the car is cold in the morning I get a little more noise up front. Almost like the sway bar is loose or something. I've validated all bots are on tight. The only thing I didn't do to spec was I just ran the reservoir lines up through the wheel wheel by pulling it back versus routing through the passage area. Just in general, it seems to have quite a bit more noise over bumps (almost like something is rattling). Anyone else have this?

Second - The car seems very bouncy. I'm running:
Front - 2 clicks compression, 1 click rebound (from softest setting)
Rear - 1 click compression, 1 click rebound (from softest setting)

The roads aren't super smooth but the car feels jarring to a degree. I've ran Bilstein PSS9s on my 911 and KW V3s on my M3 and haven't experienced this even turned up pretty stiff. Is anyone else experiencing this?

BTW - Running the off-the-shelf spring rates (275/350)

[donutfilling]

Originally Posted by swift996

I installed mine - I'm just wondering if any others running them can give me some feedback.

It seems when the car is cold in the morning I get a little more noise up front. Almost like the sway bar is loose or something. I've validated all bots are on tight. The only thing I didn't do to spec was I just ran the reservoir lines up through the wheel wheel by pulling it back versus routing through the passage area. Just in general, it seems to have quite a bit more noise over bumps (almost like something is rattling). Anyone else have this?

Second - The car seems very bouncy. I'm running:
Front - 2 clicks compression, 1 click rebound (from softest setting)
Rear - 1 click compression, 1 click rebound (from softest setting)

The roads aren't super smooth but the car feels jarring to a degree. I've ran Bilstein PSS9s on my 911 and KW V3s on my M3 and haven't experienced this even turned up pretty stiff. Is anyone else experiencing this?

BTW - Running the off-the-shelf spring rates (275/350)

Had the very same issue initially but I talked to Tony and Mark at Eibach and they took care of it. I'd get in contact with them.