The "Pedal Dance" testing

[Scooby South]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

Sorry if you mentioned this already; Do you left foot brake? I do not and only get Ice Mode when Pedal Dance is done.

I wonder if there is a Toyota interference with brake+throttle programmed into ECU due to the Unintended Acceleration issues (since some were allegedly caused by floormats).

Originally Posted by MTCRX

Simmons and Scooby South:
Are you guys doing the pedal dance settings before you autocross and still getting this Ice Mode? I believe that is the discussion. I saw this happen with a Corvette last year, the guy had raced it several years and never had the problem before, and didn't after. It sounds like the FR-S may be more prone to this problem. How about guys like Robispec, Evasive, Griffon, are they changing out their control systems to avoid this? So if you do regular left foot braking it is not such a problem? My first event is still over a month off, I think I might need to find a safe place to test this out.

My codriver at Dixie Left Foots... Christy Carlson drove a BRZ this past weekend and got this same situation as she left foots also. I do not Left foot.. and personally have never had an issue...yet.. I think its the combination of Gas and Brake confusing the system... I do go 'all off' on traction holding the button down.. does the peddle dance overide the System thats all off or does it just amend it.???

sorry a bit confused still ..oh and sorry I didn't get back to this earlier..

Bill

[GTM_Challenge]

Pedal dance = traction control full defeated. Tracked the car for the first time this weekend. The first few sessions, I just held the traction control button down and the traction control light in the tach was still blinking certain parts on track - no bueno. Car handled kinda weird that way.

With the pedal dance, it was fully defeated, but I still had ABS on track, which was nice.

No left foot braking here and no issues with ice mode.

[Kido1986]

From the feeling I got from it, I felt it would be fine on a track day (haven't been back on one since) but with the more frantic nature of autocross, it just didn't work well.

[DylanFRS]

The thing I don't like about this is that you surely are losing braking performance in areas. The EDP's ability to redistribute braking force is something that you as a driver just can't do, no matter how good of a driver you are, and you are without a doubt going to have different loading on the tires in different situations. The EDP is going to distribute the most braking to the tires with the most grip which has to be more optimal than just a single setting.

I am not trying to argue that this may be a necessary thing for some people due to trail braking, I just want to bring up conversation that you are also surely losing braking performance in other situations by disabling the EDP.

[jam0o0]

ice mode is definitely a multi manufacturer problem. my brother races a 370Z in CS that does well at nationals. he gets ice mode in that car too. his solution is not to hit the gas and brakes at the same time, and to not jab the pedal.

in his car you can't get ice mode to happen with real street tires. with hoosiers he can produce it at will.

i think ice mode comes from the sticky tires we are all using. the wheel speed sensors are looking for sudden changes in wheel speed. on a track with stickies every stop is "too fast" according to the system programming.

just my opinion.

[CSG Mike]

Are we getting CONFIRMED results of ice mode with the pedal dance?

Some more testing: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34453

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Are we getting CONFIRMED results of ice mode with the pedal dance?

Some more testing: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34453

Yes. Happens when braking in anything other than a perfectly straight line (and sometimes even in a straight line if you're on race tires). I'm not sure what you mean by "confirmed" though - how many more people have to report it?

The Lotus Elise is also notorious for having a similar issue exacerbated by heavy trail braking.

[xwd]

Eric (Simmons) is the main guy who tried it in his STX WRX and it made the problem worse.

In my BRZ on race tires I only ever got ice mode after I did the "pedal dance" for one run. Otherwise I've never had it kick in at all, whether braking in a straight line or trail braking.

I did trail brake every run at our last event in one particular sweeper and never had it kick in. I don't left foot brake and I'm not one to stab at the brakes, I usually brake more progressively. Another guy I autocross with on A6s has had it kick in and he said what triggered it generally is lots of steering input while stabbing at the brakes.

This may have something to do with it, although I've seen some literature suggesting the BRZ does not have Brake Assist

Originally Posted by Subaru

BRZ's Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) prevents wheel lock-up and helps maintain driver control. Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) balances braking, while Brake Assist can sense a panic-stop situation and apply full braking force to help stop faster.

[Simmons]

Originally Posted by dwx

Eric (Simmons) is the main guy who tried it in his STX WRX and it made the problem worse.

In my BRZ on race tires I only ever got ice mode after I did the "pedal dance" for one run. Otherwise I've never had it kick in at all, whether braking in a straight line or trail braking.

I did trail brake every run at our last event in one particular sweeper and never had it kick in. I don't left foot brake and I'm not one to stab at the brakes, I usually brake more progressively. Another guy I autocross with on A6s has had it kick in and he said what triggered it generally is lots of steering input while stabbing at the brakes.

This may have something to do with it, although I've seen some literature suggesting the BRZ does not have Brake Assist

You mean STX BRZ, not WRX.

Simmons

[iLuveKetchup]

I got ice mode this past weekend on a 100% stock BRZ. No steering input, applied the brakes in a straight line. I LFB & very aggressive on the brakes. Might be due to some overlap between brakes & throttle?

[xwd]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I got ice mode this past weekend on a 100% stock BRZ. No steering input, applied the brakes in a straight line. I LFB & very aggressive on the brakes. Might be due to some overlap between brakes & throttle?

It's possible, there are definitely things in play when hitting them both at the same time.

[Kamran]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I got ice mode this past weekend on a 100% stock BRZ. No steering input, applied the brakes in a straight line. I LFB & very aggressive on the brakes. Might be due to some overlap between brakes & throttle?

Stabbing the brake in a straight line should not trigger an ice mode. If you read the manual, FRS has a brake assist, which is supposed to apply a much higher pressure to the brakes, if it detects emergency braking, as well as applying them to wheels most effectively working. At least that is what they describe FRS is capable of performing. So if stabbing the brakes in a straight line triggers an ice mode, bringing it to the mfr's/dealer's attention may be worthwhile for possibility of a future ECU flashing and possibly fixing the issue.

What I don't understand that seems no one here has been able to figure out is that there are a number of pro teams competing in top competitions with a lot more aggressive set ups than the guys in this forum. So what did they get with their cars that we don't get??? Why are they able to compete at top levels...?

[iLuveKetchup]

^hmm ok. I don't know what the manual says, I do know what I felt. I have no dog in this fight. Just telling you my observation & conditions.

[Kamran]

I'm not saying you didn't. I'm saying if you did and others do, it should provide the community more ammunition to get factory to reflash the ECU, and maybe, just maybe, fix the ice mode all together while they are at it...

If this happens on public street the next time a kid runs onto the street... Then what. Does that really need to happen and mfrs get sued before a reflashing or fix is provided?

After all, they seem to provide the pros with the right tools to step on the pavement!