My Engine getting forged.

[usptwins]

good luck with everything man.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

Built motor doesn't automatically mean more power, it means more reliable. He also lowered the compression 3 points which drastically lowers the amount of power per PSI.

I think he was running around 13 psi and made 330, which is more psi than stock but its more reliable than making that power with 8 psi on stock internals.

He could max out the turbo at around 450rwhp on pump has and his engine will be completely fine, not unlike the stock motor at that boost level on pump gas.

I totally understand all of that, my point was why go to the expense of building the engine to only make ~20whp more.

There's lots of cars making good power on stock internals, if it were me I would run stock internals until there's a problem and have an engine built then.

[Tansey86]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I totally understand all of that, my point was why go to the expense of building the engine to only make ~20whp more.

There's lots of cars making good power on stock internals, if it were me I would run stock internals until there's a problem and have an engine built then.

Other things like transmission, rear end, brakes, suspension that need to be upgraded too before big power.

One step at a time

[Silverdub]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I totally understand all of that, my point was why go to the expense of building the engine to only make ~20whp more.

There's lots of cars making good power on stock internals, if it were me I would run stock internals until there's a problem and have an engine built then.

Usually when you get to that problem its too late allready to save the block

[Hawaiian]

I was shocked at how "cheap" built blocks are. P&L has one on the shelf they were going to throw in their car, but with the power the stock block was holding they passed.

A shortblock from subaru is about $2500 + forged puts it in the 4-5k range.

[Xdragonxb0i]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

stock internals are already holding strong at over 640whp :-D

310 not even denting them

640 on e85. A built engine could probably hit 900 maybe 1000whp on e85. IF the owner dare too.

I think most Tuners dont recommend more then 8-10PSi on 93Octane

[jamesm]

i want this so bad. i'm jealous.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

Other things like transmission, rear end, brakes, suspension that need to be upgraded too before big power.

One step at a time

IMO, even the power of 5psi (~250-280whp) is more than you should be running on stock brakes. The transmission and rear ends in the 500whp+ cars seem to be holding up fine with nothing more than a stronger clutch, which this will absolutely need already anyway and should've been done with the engine out if it wasn't.

[Ruckus]

Ive also dealt with AWDtuning. Would recommend them to anyone!

[xwd]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I totally understand all of that, my point was why go to the expense of building the engine to only make ~20whp more.

There's lots of cars making good power on stock internals, if it were me I would run stock internals until there's a problem and have an engine built then.

Ask the guy who threw a rod and had to replace an entire longblock as opposed to just splitting the stock case and putting in new internals.

I have been around Subaru turbo engines long enough to realize chances are with the stock internals it will be a matter of when it will break moreso than if especially if you are pushing it. I hope I'm proven wrong but there is nothing wrong with paying for some piece of mind.

[djdnz]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

stock internals are already holding strong at over 640whp :-D

310 not even denting them

ON E85

Try running that high on pump gas and let us know what happens

[AZFA20]

Originally Posted by djdnz

ON E85

Try running that high on pump gas and let us know what happens

I don't really understand this response...... It doesn't matter if its E85, pump gas, flux capacitor, or cracked out gerbils. 640hp results in the same stress on compenents no matter how you make it. The only difference is that E85 allows you to do it. Detonation on E85 or pump gas has the same destructive nature regardless if it's built or not. Detonation can kill the most invested engines you can build. Sometimes built engines allow some more forgiveness but the real reason for built engines regardless of fuel type is to withstand the pure stress of making more powah! It should not be done to combat detonation........

The fact that a stock engine is surviving 640hp is testament to the stock components and more so the tune. Could it be a one off? perhaps, but still rather amazing when you think about the amount of cylinder pressures being generated on stock pistons. The shear force being applied to stock rods under that muh pressure is crazy. Not to mention the stock valvetrain holding this too. I am all for built engines though there is no question they will last a long service life under severe punishment assuming you are avoiding detonation like the plague. For longevity the rule of thumb is over build and under power with a fantastic tune.

[Allch Chcar]

He's only suggesting that detonation is far worse on internals than more power. We're talking about the limitations of pump gas on stock compression ratio here.

Also, E85 is awesome.

[djdnz]

Originally Posted by AZFA20

I don't really understand this response...... It doesn't matter if its E85, pump gas, flux capacitor, or cracked out gerbils. 640hp results in the same stress on compenents no matter how you make it. The only difference is that E85 allows you to do it. Detonation on E85 or pump gas has the same destructive nature regardless if it's built or not. Detonation can kill the most invested engines you can build. Sometimes built engines allow some more forgiveness but the real reason for built engines regardless of fuel type is to withstand the pure stress of making more powah! It should not be done to combat detonation........

The fact that a stock engine is surviving 640hp is testament to the stock components and more so the tune. Could it be a one off? perhaps, but still rather amazing when you think about the amount of cylinder pressures being generated on stock pistons. The shear force being applied to stock rods under that muh pressure is crazy. Not to mention the stock valvetrain holding this too. I am all for built engines though there is no question they will last a long service life under severe punishment assuming you are avoiding detonation like the plague. For longevity the rule of thumb is over build and under power with a fantastic tune.

The internals are impressive, no doubt and I don't disagree. The fact that people have been making north of 500hp on E85 is incredibly impressive. However, unless you lower the compression ratio there is no way you're going to get that power out of pump gas without detonation, hence my original post.

Many people don't have access to the stuff, nor would they want to use it even if they could. For making great power, go for it. But for the rest of us, it's important to clarify that the same cannot always be done with pump gas.