ok so ive been playing with this idea 2.8L v8 swap?

[RehabJeff86]

Torque of 245 @ 7500 rpm is kinda weak, can they improve this?

[wbradley]

Dont mean to be a parade pisser...

If you have the ability to swap in a completely different motor, with the fabrication that will no doubt be required...why not just pull the FA20 and make it a built engine, then go FI? Probably cost the same or less and you have a lot less fitment issues.

[Huehuecoyotl]

sounds like more like $30k all done out the door if that motor alone is $20k.

[FreshFRS]

Originally Posted by wbradley

Dont mean to be a parade pisser...

If you have the ability to swap in a completely different motor, with the fabrication that will no doubt be required...why not just pull the FA20 and make it a built engine, then go FI? Probably cost the same or less and you have a lot less fitment issues.

the weight savings would be a plenty good reason for many. a fully dressed 400-500hp engine that weighs all of 200lbs is somewhat astonishing. anybody know what the stock motor weighs? est. 300-340lbs? the weight balance would move closer to the rear.

Also Flat-plane crank engines are not really torque monsters the are designed to rev high, 245lb/ft out of 2.8l is pretty decent really. i mean that is 90lbs more than stock and it still makes 170lb ft at 2500rpm.

[wbradley]

There are a lot easier ways to save weight if that is the goal. And, the balance of the car would be off as well. Not to mention the CoG.

This just sounds like a wildly expensive venture with benefit that could be easily achieved with a built factory motor.

[jm1681]

Originally Posted by FreshFRS

...IMO the V10 will probably weigh about 275lbs or so and be 600hp ~330tq don't quote me on that but it would be bad ass. probably 50+k or so for the engine...

Again with the soiling...

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

Torque of 245 @ 7500 rpm is kinda weak, can they improve this?

you improve it with gear ratios and weight reduction

and you can stay in each gear longer which also helps cause you can take advantage of each gear more effectively

lets say you use the same gear ratios and swap the engine

2nd gear 7450 rpms = 59 mph
2nd gear 10,000 rpms = 79 mph
3rd gear 7450 rpms = 86 mph
3rd gear 10,000 rpms = 115 mph

so you would change out for a 4.5-4.9 final drive, get a close ratio gear set to tighten up 1-2-3 and your golden at the track

by changing the final drive you can multiply how much tq is actually going to the ground

with a 4.9 you can put around 20% more power to the ground and you can land in the rev range's "power" zone much easier

EDIT: or you can get a close ratio gear set and hit 60 mph in 1st gear you wouldn't lose .3-.7 seconds a shift and seeing that the twins need to do a 2-3 shift to it 60.... you could lay down a 5 second 0-60 on the stock power... yeah 10,000 REVs help out a lot

with 400hp i could easily see the car screaming to 60 without shifting in a good 4 seconds flat.... but hey what am i to say?!!??!?!? 4 seconds is pretty good, more than i'll ever need + instant response from cable throttle + 10,000 rpms = heaven

supercharger kits also exist for that engine... so a 3 second to 60mph supercharged tiny v8 86 wouldn't be hard to imagine

EDIT EDIT:

also 245 tq is perfect for the application i want, i do have an automatic and that tq shouldn't overwhelm the transmission in any way. Or i could go with the 8 speed from the ISF have some nice shift times and plenty of gears to play with.

[Praetendere]

Want.

[Tainen]

That engine is used in very, very specific racing groups around the country- mostly spec classes that all run specific versions of the H1. You can usually find used ones after someone trying to run in that class goes bankrupt- happens quite often. I researched the H1 a few years ago out of sheer interest, and man... the experiences the racers have with these motors are really cool.

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by Tainen

That engine is used in very, very specific racing groups around the country- mostly spec classes that all run specific versions of the H1. You can usually find used ones after someone trying to run in that class goes bankrupt- happens quite often. I researched the H1 a few years ago out of sheer interest, and man... the experiences the racers have with these motors are really cool.

thats exactly what i want, i want something thats w technological feat that will take me a couple years to master plus itll be a hoot!

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

you improve it with gear ratios and weight reduction

and you can stay in each gear longer which also helps cause you can take advantage of each gear more effectively

lets say you use the same gear ratios and swap the engine

2nd gear 7450 rpms = 59 mph
2nd gear 10,000 rpms = 79 mph
3rd gear 7450 rpms = 86 mph
3rd gear 10,000 rpms = 115 mph

so you would change out for a 4.5-4.9 final drive, get a close ratio gear set to tighten up 1-2-3 and your golden at the track

by changing the final drive you can multiply how much tq is actually going to the ground

with a 4.9 you can put around 20% more power to the ground and you can land in the rev range's "power" zone much easier

EDIT: or you can get a close ratio gear set and hit 60 mph in 1st gear you wouldn't lose .3-.7 seconds a shift and seeing that the twins need to do a 2-3 shift to it 60.... you could lay down a 5 second 0-60 on the stock power... yeah 10,000 REVs help out a lot

with 400hp i could easily see the car screaming to 60 without shifting in a good 4 seconds flat.... but hey what am i to say?!!??!?!? 4 seconds is pretty good, more than i'll ever need + instant response from cable throttle + 10,000 rpms = heaven

supercharger kits also exist for that engine... so a 3 second to 60mph supercharged tiny v8 86 wouldn't be hard to imagine

EDIT EDIT:

also 245 tq is perfect for the application i want, i do have an automatic and that tq shouldn't overwhelm the transmission in any way. Or i could go with the 8 speed from the ISF have some nice shift times and plenty of gears to play with.

Wow! U just enlightened me!! :happy0180:

That totally make sense now!! So how much is this engine again?

[Ganthrithor]

Will it sound like an LFA?

[ultra]

This motor was designed to be used in sub-1000kg cars such as Caterham clones, Ariel Atoms and Radicals, where it'd mate to a bike transmission or a sequential box.

Sticking an H1V8 in a ZN6 sounds nice in theory (when you fap over the numbers) but realistically speaking it makes no sense at all for this car.

First of all, as already mentioned, we're talking about putting a 30k+ engine into a 25k car all for the sake of 400hp.

Let's assume that passes though.




The next big problem is that you'll need a completely new transmission as well. You see, the H1V8 is designed for sub 1000kg cars with bike trannies or sequential boxes.

The ZN6 at 1400+kgs is far too heavy for a bike transmission to handle which leaves you with two choices:

A: A Hollinger style sequential box. Big $$$ there.

B: Fab up a custom bellhousing to mate the H1V8 to the stockZN6 Aisin tranny. Better have some mad CAD skills and be prepared to completely change/build up the tranny internals and possibly swap put most of the remaining drivetrain gearing as well too. Don;t take my word for it - have a read through the Miatabusa build on MotoIQ for some good info on the joys of putting a bike-derived motor into a conventional road car.



Then of course there's engine management. No problem though - Motec M800 or better and a custom wiring harness. Just write another $$$ check.



Point is that you'd easily end up far north of $80k (and probably $100k) for a build like this, at which point you'd still be getting smoked by stuff like C5 and C6 Z06 Vettes (sub 1400kgs and/or 400+hp after all).

Don;t get me wrong here. Insanity isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd *love* to see somebody try stuffing a Busa V8 in a ZN6 as much as I'd love to see this motor in an NA series Miata/Roadster/MX5. I'll even comment first on your Speedhunters story. You'd have to be extremely rich and batshit crazy to attempt an H1V8/ZN6 is all, given the cheaper and more practical alternatives of built FA20 motors, F/I and/or swapping in a mildly built EJ/JZ/LSx/other V8 etc.



Moar power to yall.

[Chad_W]

As someone mentioned before, you may be better off pulling the stock motor and working it. We already know that e85 will add power, so how much would it cost to add 10% displacement, another 1.5K rpms and make it work? Could get you in the 300-350hp area without having to spend all the other money on ancillaries...