When should i do an oil change?

[bluesubie]

The factory fill is indeed synthetic (Idemitsu) and comes with a different level of additives (molybdenum, zinc, and phosphorus) than the oil found at the dealer. Perhaps this aids in break-in but you're not doing your car any favors by doing the first oil change sooner than recommended.

-Dennis

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

The factory fill is indeed synthetic (Idemitsu) and comes with a different level of additives (molybdenum, zinc, and phosphorus) than the oil found at the dealer. Perhaps this aids in break-in but you're not doing your car any favors by doing the first oil change sooner than recommended.

-Dennis

As usual, we are going to need evidence to support this statement. Also, an explanation as to why, for example, molybdenum, which is used in a paste form during the assembly process, should be regarded as a part of a "break-in lubricant" formula.

[YourFearlessLeader]

isnt ALL 0w-20 synthetic???

[ducatichick]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

The factory fill is indeed synthetic (Idemitsu) and comes with a different level of additives (molybdenum, zinc, and phosphorus) than the oil found at the dealer. Perhaps this aids in break-in but you're not doing your car any favors by doing the first oil change sooner than recommended.

-Dennis

Talked with one of the guys here at work and he said they used to put additives in the oil to help aid in engine break in. They'd run it on a dyno, measure fuel consumption, and when fuel consumption leveled off they considered the engine broken in, about 8 hours. This was at a truck plant (class 8).

So the additives theory seems plausible to me, and yes changing the oil out sooner would be a detriment in this case.

[Chen]

I wanted to do mine at 3000 but the tech's at Toyota said do it at 5000. When I first bought the car They said not till 7500. I ended up doing it myself at 3000 and then plan on taking it back at 5500ish for toyota to do it.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

isnt ALL 0w-20 synthetic???

Yes, with the exception of a Honda 0W-20 synthetic blend.
http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/produ...lend-motor-oil

Oil has evolved a lot in the past couple of years. Only a few years ago, it was a safe bet that any 0W-x was an ester/PAO based synthetic. ExxonMobil changed this with the first Group III oil base oil (Visom) capable of being used for a 0W-x.

-Dennis

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Marrk

As usual, we are going to need evidence to support this statement. Also, an explanation as to why, for example, molybdenum, which is used in a paste form during the assembly process, should be regarded as a part of a "break-in lubricant" formula.

You can compare zinc and phosphorus levels between a factory fill and a dealer service fill Idemistu. With such high molybdenum levels from the assembly lube, it's hard to know if the moly from a uoa is from the factory fill oil. This is from a response from Idemitsu about moly in the factory fill. Unfortunately they didn't give all of the reasons for the moly except for helping with fuel economy.

You ask some very good questions which I will answer in “generalities”. First, just so you know where the information is coming from, Idemitsu supplies most of the OEM’s for both Factory fill and service fill. In the case of Toyota, we do not supply their service fill oil so I cannot comment on that particular formulation.

OEMs specify Moly in their factory fill formulations to increase fuel economy during the initial period. In general a factory fill formula will be more robust in the additive treatments etc. This is done for a variety of reasons which I will not go into here.

Some of the service fill formulations also contained molybdenum however, with the transition to the ILSAC GF-5 specification, most 0W-20 service fill 0W-20 formulations now do not have Moly. That being said, you are always safest following the OEMs recommendations. All service fill OE formulas that we supply have been submitted to a full battery of tests at that respective OEM’s R&D facilities in Japan and have been approved.

I hope this answers your questions. If you have any additional questions, please let me know.

Since the above email, Idemitsu has come out with a high moly GF5 Mazda dealer service fill oil.

-Dennis

[Mr.]

knock knock you hear that?? its your engine time for me 2 do my 1st oil change

[SXE10]

Wow all these people dropping the factory fill early thinking they're achieving something You guys need to read up on how an engine is broken in. You're causing more harm than good to your engine.

The primary goal during engine break-in is to seat the rings against the cylinder wall. Properly seated rings increase compression, resulting in maximum horsepower; they reduce oil consumption and prevent hot combustion gases from entering the crankcase. To achieve this, however, the oil must allow the correct level of “controlled wear” to occur between the cylinder wall/ring interface while maintaining wear protection on other critical engine parts. Insufficient break-in leaves behind peaks on the cylinder wall that prevent the rings from seating. The deeper valleys, meanwhile, allow excess oil to collect and burn during combustion, increasing oil consumption. Too much wear results in cylinder glazing due to peaks “rolling over” into the valleys and preventing oil from collecting and adequately lubricating the cylinder wall.

Replacing the factory fill with your bling synthetic stops this from happening.

[getbent]

Seating the rings doesn't take very long, certainly not thousands of miles. If it did, there would be significant oil blowby and as far as I know most people don't have measurable oil consumption.

While chaning the oil more frequently than recommended may not be necessary, it probably also doesn't do any measureable harm. Remember that 3K oil changes were the "standard" for a long time and engnes racked up hundreds of thousands of miles on conventional motor oils.

[victorb]

Here in the philippines, toyota recommends to do the first oil change at 1,000kms regardless of anything. If not done, the 3yrs warranty will be voided. They've been recommending this for over 15yrs here. Then every 5,000kms thereafter.

Climate here is around 77'F to 102'F. Its pretty hot and stop and go traffic is bad -- 30kms is 1hr going to work.
Toyota Philippines have been putting 20w-50 toyota miniral oil in almost all cars here. When they launched the 86 mid last year, they now offer 5w-30 toyota mineral oil. Other choices would be semi synthetic 10w-40 and synthetic 5w-40 (all toyota brands)

I am currently at 900kms, and planning to change it around 1,200kms (a bit extended) as people here have been saying it has factory 'moly' in. Will then change to the toyota mineral 5w-30 oil as well as differential and transmission oil (will use motul 300 for the tranny and motul 300 ls for the differential).

I've been breaking it in via moderate kind. first 400kms i did not go past 3.5k rpm, then on an increasing pace, i not rev til 5.5k rpm with lots of decel. after the first oil change + diff and tranny, i will be doing a dyno.

Will keep you guys posted after my initial 1,200kms all fluid oil change

[Alienate]

Originally Posted by victorb

Here in the philippines, toyota recommends to do the first oil change at 1,000kms regardless of anything. If not done, the 3yrs warranty will be voided. They've been recommending this for over 15yrs here. Then every 5,000kms thereafter.

Climate here is around 77'F to 102'F. Its pretty hot and stop and go traffic is bad -- 30kms is 1hr going to work.
Toyota Philippines have been putting 20w-50 toyota miniral oil in almost all cars here. When they launched the 86 mid last year, they now offer 5w-30 toyota mineral oil. Other choices would be semi synthetic 10w-40 and synthetic 5w-40 (all toyota brands)

I am currently at 900kms, and planning to change it around 1,200kms (a bit extended) as people here have been saying it has factory 'moly' in. Will then change to the toyota mineral 5w-30 oil as well as differential and transmission oil (will use motul 300 for the tranny and motul 300 ls for the differential).

I've been breaking it in via moderate kind. first 400kms i did not go past 3.5k rpm, then on an increasing pace, i not rev til 5.5k rpm with lots of decel. after the first oil change + diff and tranny, i will be doing a dyno.

Will keep you guys posted after my initial 1,200kms all fluid oil change

SEE! 1000 km is only 620 miles. Rings are fully seated before 500 miles.
So please, the more you know... the less BS you dispense.
Thanks for the post!

PS... I changed my oil at 500 miles and again at 2000 miles.Sue me.

[Mr.Corvus]

Hm, well I've got about 1.1k miles on mine...I guess I'll do an oil change next weekend. I see people recommending the K&N filter a lot, but for a guy who just does daily commutes, occasional long drives, and doesn't plan on taking their car to the track, what oil do you guys suggest I use?

[supramkivtt2jz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Corvus

Hm, well I've got about 1.1k miles on mine...I guess I'll do an oil change next weekend. I see people recommending the K&N filter a lot, but for a guy who just does daily commutes, occasional long drives, and doesn't plan on taking their car to the track, what oil do you guys suggest I use?

Any SM rated synthetic 0-20 will be perfect for you.