3 things: Even after reading many reviews, I still can't fathom these...

[lemonspeakers]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

actually no, lowering a car with correct shock does not alter COG.

i will get technical for a bit here so please bear with me.

a vehicle’s dynamic characteristic is a product of both center of mass and center of gravity.

referencing from wikipedia,


in English. When you look at a car as a whole while evaluating the effect of external forces, the reaction from COM and COG would be the same; thus COM and COG is interchangeable.

However, the difference between COM and COG is that COM describes mass distribution of an object, while COG describe the gravities effects on that object.

with basic newton's law F=MA, where COM is the only the mass part of that equation, while COG is a force(COG=COM(M)x Gravity(A)).

Since COG is force acting on the car in the vertical plane, making the car higher or lower does not affect either the Mass or the Gravity on cars.

Nice work there. Took a full year of physics in college and understood it all. Not too technical for me.
Bottom line, there is very little effect.

[bcj]

Bro, do you even slam?

[Mad_Mike]

1) If you are the first person sitting at a red light and you gun it when the light changes green, it feels a little slow. My old 1995 bmw 325i with CAI, engine chip, lightweight flywheel, cat back exhaust (189HP stock - don't know what it really was) felt faster. I don't know if it was actually faster. HOWEVER, the more you drive this car, the less you care that it feels a little slow in a straight line. You end up just loving to drive it.

2) This car handles extremely well. I can't relate it to the acura or civic having never driven them but I can say it handles better than a 1995 bmw 325i with shocks, springs, sway bars, and camber plates. My dad drove my FRS and he said it handles better than his 1998 bmw m3 with stage 3 dinan suspension (sway bars, shocks, springs, front/rear strut tower bars).

3) Above my pay grade.

[WatchmaN]

Only car that left me in the dust was so far was a audi S5(I was stock), I took civic si, mazda speed, infinity fx35(that was close), but I have a tune so....to me the car don't feel slow at all, but I never drive it under 3.5k, if you have an A/T you are screwed.

[Retro86]

i had a 99 GSR before the frs and between the two, the difference is the kick of the vtec lol, taking turns and corners on the teg is heavy compared to the frs

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

actually no, lowering a car with correct shock does not alter COG.

Wait, are you saying that lowering the car, (resulting in a chassis that sits lower to the ground) does not change the height of the Center Of Mass?

No arguments about how negligible the effects are for 99% of drivers, your post just doesn't make sense to me.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

actually no, lowering a car with correct shock does not alter COG.

Oh yes it does! Lowering a car 1" will absolutely lower its center of gravity by almost 1".

i will get technical for a bit here so please bear with me.

a vehicle’s dynamic characteristic is a product of both center of mass and center of gravity.

These are the *same thing*.

referencing from wikipedia,

Will gain you zero points in an engineering/physics/science test!

However, the difference between COM and COG is that COM describes mass distribution of an object, while COG describe the gravities effects on that object.

Center of gravity and center of mass both refer to a single point in space. The *same* point in 3d space. Neither actually describes the mass distribution, but only the place where for simple analyses the total mass could be said to reside.

with basic newton's law F=MA, where COM is the only the mass part of that equation, while COG is a force(COG=COM(M)x Gravity(A)).

No, center of gravity and center of mass only refer to a location. Neither is a "force" or a "mass". They are an address of a location represented in x,y,z or other 3d coordinates.

Since COG is force acting on the car in the vertical plane, making the car higher or lower does not affect either the Mass or the Gravity on cars.

Of course lowering the car doesn't affect its actual MASS, or its WEIGHT in a gravitational field!

Lowering the car *does* move the c.o.g/c.o.m. location downward by very nearly the amount of lowering. This is very beneficial as it allows the inside tires to contribute more and will generally increase cornering capability for reasons having to do with the nonlinear relationship between tire lateral grip and vertical load.

[_hollywood]

The best way i can describe it being a die hard honda guy for 15 years is it is basically a rwd ITR ( minus the cool vtec switchover) that will make sense to some of you....

Its fast enough to get out of its own way, but the real fun is full throttle long sweeping turns, it just stays planted and
Slides as long as you like, mine is still bone stock, its just a great DD/ corner carver

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

actually no, lowering a car with correct shock does not alter COG.

i will get technical for a bit here so please bear with me.

a vehicle’s dynamic characteristic is a product of both center of mass and center of gravity.

referencing from wikipedia,


in English. When you look at a car as a whole while evaluating the effect of external forces, the reaction from COM and COG would be the same; thus COM and COG is interchangeable.

However, the difference between COM and COG is that COM describes mass distribution of an object, while COG describe the gravities effects on that object.

with basic newton's law F=MA, where COM is the only the mass part of that equation, while COG is a force(COG=COM(M)x Gravity(A)).

Since COG is force acting on the car in the vertical plane, making the car higher or lower does not affect either the Mass or the Gravity on cars.

Sort of kind of maybe. Not.

"Center of gravity" on a car can be used interchangeably with "Center of Mass" as gravity acts on the car, effectively, at the center of mass.

That said, your statement that it doesn't matter because gravity acts in the vertical plane is false. While turning or making any kind of acceleration, the force acting on the car is a combination of gravity and and forces fore and aft and left and right as the car accelerates forward or backwards (braking) and to one side of the car or the other (angular acceleration) as the car turns.

Inertia wants to keep the car moving exactly how it is. It takes force to deviate from this. The imaginary inertial force effectively acts on the center of mass of the car and is reacted by the tires.

By lowering the car (properly) you reduce the roll moment induced by the force it takes to turn the car. This moment is reacted by your tires as an apparent decrease in load on the inside tires and apparent increase in load on the outside tires. By reducing this change in apparent force, you better utilize all of the contact area of all four tires, leaving more usable grip to actually turn the car.

Think about a truck vs our cars. Do you think that there is any way that a truck could ever corner as easily with the same tires our car has?

Now. The amount of change you're going to be able to affect may or may not be noticeable, or it may only be noticeable on the track. But there most definitely is a change.

Cheers
Nathan

[Capstan]

When I drive mine I find that every time I pull away from a stoplight I'm alone, I look back and the slugs are just getting their lard-ass cars rolling through the intersection. And I didn't step on it, just normal acceleration. So I figure there are several possible reasons for this. One is that most people are paying absolutely no attention to their driving because they are on the phone. Another is that 'normal' acceleration in this car is much peppier than 'normal' on the average SUV/pickup/sad beater that I usually see on the road. But I do know I can get up to illegal speed plenty quick and have to watch it.

[njccmd2002]

the car moves if you press the accelerator and stops when you press the brakes. any questions. oh and i forgot it hurts my back to get in

[Retro86]

Originally Posted by njccmd2002

the car moves if you press the accelerator and stops when you press the brakes. any questions. oh and i forgot it hurts my back to get in

awesome pic man

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by ExWhyZer0

You lift? :P

LOL

[OjiGeorge]

For a RWD, this baby inspires confidence. It is supremely fun.

If you want the full package, factor in another 6K for STG 1 FI & tires.