UPS Truck vs. My new FR-S

[stealth_fighter]

Originally Posted by Mpowered

This is just 100% wrong.

Red cars have the highest insurance rates because they are associated with flashy sports cars...

Anyway, black cars reflect the least amount of light so going by your "science" they should be the ones that are least visible (and they are). Hell, black isnt even on the visible spectrum!!! Going by your logic they are invisible!

After 3 months in an asphalt fr-s I have to say I think it is invisible. Had two people in the first month look right at it then commence to hitting it with some part of their car.

[M-17]

Originally Posted by DBacon1052

Did anyone else think they were going to open this and see a race? lol

Sorry about the car though. That really sucks.

Nope, but would been comical to see.

[Exhaust]

That UPS gave zero fucks

[fatoni]

the whole color to recognition thing is not really an exact science. the human eye responds more to colors toward the center of the visible spectrum while red is on the inferior edge. on the other hand, we dont really use color to identify things. we use contrast. since a lot of our world isnt red, i would imagine that red is relatively easy to see. its visible enough to use for stop lights and signs. i think the focus is on contrast.

[10splaya22]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

My point is that it's not about the numbers. How much is the shirt on your back worth right now? Nothing or everything, depending on how YOU feel about it. But try to sell it and you see what the real value is in real-time, because then whether or not you get what you feel is right, or more or less, depends on the market. It's good that your insurance company gave you more money, you've certainly paid into them. My point is that it's not cut and dry every time, value is intangible unless defined by something else. A wrecked and restored vehicle that is in high demand and hard to get could easily increase in value, it's all supply and demand.

If you had 2 identical cars. One in an accident and one that wasn't, the damaged car would most certainly be less. If you had the option you would pick the clean one every time. Yes its been fixed but it will never be the same as a brand new car.

[oldpueblo]

Originally Posted by 10splaya22

If you had 2 identical cars. One in an accident and one that wasn't, the damaged car would most certainly be less. If you had the option you would pick the clean one every time. Yes its been fixed but it will never be the same as a brand new car.

IF both are being sold, yes. If both are being enjoyed by their owners, no.

[blackraven1425]

Originally Posted by roddy

Neither will UPS. They take accidents very seriously.

Edit: Let us know how this works out for you.

Yeah, this is what I heard from the guy running the outgoing end at the local hub for UPS. They're brutal about accidents, this guy won't be driving again for a substantial period of time.

[Gen]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

IF both are being sold, yes. If both are being enjoyed by their owners, no.

Definitely, definitely not true. I've won a diminished value case or two in my time. Whether or not you sell it or intend to sell it is completely irrelevant, and while insurance companies like to claim it's not possible to assess diminished value until the vehicle is sold, this is also incorrect. They simply hate paying it. (see Oliver v. Henry which actually took place in Arizona for what its worth)

It's no different than a house. If a nascar stadium went in 15 feet behind your house, it's no longer as valuable as it previously was regardless of whether or not you intend to sell it. (Which this sort of precedent is exactly what I always use)

Several years ago Allstate wrote a check for $7500, after paying all costs to repair my vehicle, after the tortfeasor lost in small claims court. The total diminished value was assessed at $15k. Repair costs for the vehicle were around $16k. If you show up prepared in front of a judge with case law, an appraisal, etc. it's a pretty easy thing to win.

Who takes diminished value on a car to civil court anyways? Was it a Ferrari or something?


edit: Btw, if anyone is actually pursuing DV, most insurance companies will throw case law at you indicating that an insurance company is only obligated to repair the vehicle. These cases are in relation to first party claims (you can't go after your own insurance company for DV in most states) rather than third party claims.

[oldpueblo]

Originally Posted by Gen

Definitely, definitely not true. I've won a diminished value case or two in my time. Whether or not you sell it or intend to sell it is completely irrelevant, and while insurance companies like to claim it's not possible to assess diminished value until the vehicle is sold, this is also incorrect. They simply hate paying it. (see Oliver v. Henry which actually took place in Arizona for what its worth)

It's no different than a house. If a nascar stadium went in 15 feet behind your house, it's no longer as valuable as it previously was regardless of whether or not you intend to sell it. (Which this sort of precedent is exactly what I always use)

Several years ago Allstate wrote a check for $7500, after paying all costs to repair my vehicle, after the tortfeasor lost in small claims court. The total diminished value was assessed at $15k. Repair costs for the vehicle were around $16k. If you show up prepared in front of a judge with case law, an appraisal, etc. it's a pretty easy thing to win.

Who takes diminished value on a car to civil court anyways? Was it a Ferrari or something?


edit: Btw, if anyone is actually pursuing DV, most insurance companies will throw case law at you indicating that an insurance company is only obligated to repair the vehicle. These cases are in relation to first party claims (you can't go after your own insurance company for DV in most states) rather than third party claims.

It's not about whether or not you can win, sleezy lawyers can win all sorts of things. It's about what dictates value. How much are your shoes worth on your feet right now? How can you possibly learn their value? Supply and demand. Your house analogy is irrelevant because you actually prove my point, it's the market that assigns value. Maybe a Nascar fan would happily pay more than its value to live so close to the track. But if its never sold then the value is intangible or you the owner assign the value yourself.

The value of my car is 100% in my eyes, I love it. I get in an accident and it gets fully repaired. The car is once again 100% and I love it. It will continue to be 100% regardless of the accident as long as the accident fully restored it.

Now years later I decide to sell it. I may or may not get full value depending on several factors. Depending on the type of vehicle I might actually get even more than it's general value regardless of any past accident. Supply, demand, mileage, year, etc. Dodge quit making orange chargers in 2012 and that's the only color a friend wanted, so he would actually pay more to get that specific year regardless of any past accident as long as it was fully restored. How much its diminished in value will depend on dozens of factors but ONLY at the time I try to sell it. Congratulations getting free money though with a lawyer trick though. I'm not saying it's wrong period, but in my book if you aren't trying to sell it then you've lost no value and you're gaming the system.

I was happy to award the guy 0 dollars, he was going after a girl who had fully paid to restore the car, he was perfectly happy with it, had no desire to sell it, but then he learned about diminished value and realized he could get several more thousands out of her just because! Dirty. If the OP has no desire to sell his FR-S, then in my opinion a diminished value claim is just asking for free money. If the insurance company pays it out I have less issue with it. But if they go after someone else for it then that's not right.

[Gen]

Originally Posted by oldpueblo

It's not about whether or not you can win, sleezy lawyers can win all sorts of things. It's about what dictates value. How much are your shoes worth on your feet right now? How can you possibly learn their value? Supply and demand. Your house analogy is irrelevant because you actually prove my point, it's the market that assigns value. Maybe a Nascar fan would happily pay more than its value to live so close to the track. But if its never sold then the value is intangible or you the owner assign the value yourself.

The value of my car is 100% in my eyes, I love it. I get in an accident and it gets fully repaired. The car is once again 100% and I love it. It will continue to be 100% regardless of the accident as long as the accident fully restored it.

Now years later I decide to sell it. I may or may not get full value depending on several factors. Depending on the type of vehicle I might actually get even more than it's general value regardless of any past accident. Supply, demand, mileage, year, etc. Dodge quit making orange chargers in 2012 and that's the only color a friend wanted, so he would actually pay more to get that specific year regardless of any past accident as long as it was fully restored. How much its diminished in value will depend on dozens of factors but ONLY at the time I try to sell it. Congratulations getting free money though with a lawyer trick though. I'm not saying it's wrong period, but in my book if you aren't trying to sell it then you've lost no value and you're gaming the system.

I was happy to award the guy 0 dollars, he was going after a girl who had fully paid to restore the car, he was perfectly happy with it, had no desire to sell it, but then he learned about diminished value and realized he could get several more thousands out of her just because! Dirty. If the OP has no desire to sell his FR-S, then in my opinion a diminished value claim is just asking for free money. If the insurance company pays it out I have less issue with it. But if they go after someone else for it then that's not right.

That may be your personal opinion on the merit of diminished value, but it's not how the law sees it. Anyone in a not-at-fault accident has a legal right to pursue compensation. Whether or not you feel that is 'ethical' is another matter. While I disagree that a value is 'intangible' until it has been sold (I can use the equity in my home or a car for collateral, for example), I'll let it slide.

For what it's worth, you HAVE to go after the individual for this, also called the tortfeasor (and the insurance company is obligated to pay it). You can't sue the insurance company directly as they did not cause the damage. It sounds like you may have misunderstood what was actually going on in the case you sat on the jury for. While you may have thought he was going after some poor woman, he was forced to do so to get to the insurance company. I highly doubt he had any expectation that she would be paying anything.

When I had to take a DV case to court, I had to take the individual that hit me, not his insurer, Allstate. I explained this to him and it was a perfectly friendly exchange.

[Cjm005]

Why does it matter if some intends to sell or not? The person hit should be made whole, exactly what they had prior to the accident. If the car has 10k worth of damage, it is forever a wrecked car and worth less in the eye of any future buyer. There are companies that investigate and put together a market analysis for this exact same reason.

[oldpueblo]

Originally Posted by Cjm005

Why does it matter if some intends to sell or not? The person hit should be made whole, exactly what they had prior to the accident. If the car has 10k worth of damage, it is forever a wrecked car and worth less in the eye of any future buyer. There are companies that investigate and put together a market analysis for this exact same reason.

You just answered your own question. If the car has been made whole then it's been made whole. If it's worth less it's only in the eyes of a buyer (potentially), not the owner who has a fully restored vehicle same as it was before. This is a free money scam, nothing more. The only way I'd have even considered awarding some money is if he had tried to sell it and not been able to get a standard price. Which in his case he could have based upon the type of vehicle he had and the exact market analysis you mentioned. Cars of his type that had been wrecked and restored were selling just fine at regularly prices, because once again the market dictates it in real time.

You guys can say what you want, if I'm looking for a very specific vehicle and I find the exact one I want for the price I want I'm not going to care one bit about a prior accident as long as it's been restored. I'm going to buy what I want to buy, that's the free market. Do some buying/selling on craigslist to understand how the market works. If someone says what I'm selling is only worth X and I say nope its Y and he wants it, he's going to pay Y. Anyway my points made.

[Demiurge]

You might not care, but *every* person I know would care. Every time I buy or sell a car, it makes the buyer more hesitant to buy the car and therefore lowers the market value of the car. The demand for a car that has been in a major accident and has been restored is less, regardless of how good the restoration. Period.

More over, no restoration is perfect because it connects materials that are non-homogenous. With temperature changes and all kinds of stress and exposure, there is a complete certainty there will be cracks, rust, or other problems in the future of the car, more so than in an undamaged car. So even if you say you don't care if a vehicle has been restored, you are making a mistake. And of course, if you are already the owner of the said car, you should be just as worried.

[Mr.Corvus]

He's lucky he ran into a sensible car driver. Considering the fact that I just broke 1k miles on mine and have only had it less than a month, if this had happened to me I'd have probably berserker-barraged the driver into the side of his van.

All X-men related jokes aside, I'm sorry for your loss. I can only hope the guys doing the repairs treat her right and get her back into top shape.