Leave the Nannies On!

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by BryanGT

I reflexively correct traction problems (years of open track, autocross, and carting). But I agree, there is no reason to have the nannies off unless you are planning on doing something stupid, and you shouldn't be doing something stupid on public roads.

If you haven't had professional "high performance driving" instruction then that should be your first "mod" for your car. Forza and Gran Turismo don't count.

I can't speak for Forza, but: This.

But seriously, he's right. If you have no experience driving, and want to spend money on upgrading your car - whether it be tires, intake, exhaust, turbo, whatever - you should seriously invest in a driving school or a few HPDE events with instruction first.

I learned to drive on a RWD car that had no "nannies" and I can't imagine trying to drive with them on. Even in critical situations, I find they're FAR more intrusive than helpful to an experienced driver. I've even had them cause a crash that would have been otherwise avoidable (due to them not letting me apply throttle since the car was sliding on an icy road, just barely clipped a pole which could have been avoided had the car not taken control).

Learning to drive with the assistance of DSC, and TSC, and VSC, and whatever other *SC's they put on cars leads to bad habits. You can't rely on the computer to save your ass. Be a better driver first.

EDIT: QFT:

Originally Posted by SubaSteve

Incoming professional drivers who tell you those are for people who don't know how to drive.

Cause they are.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

I can't speak for Forza, but: This.

Not a fair comparison, they had a solid weeks education before being set into the real world again and many of the competitors did have prior competitive driving experience. You can understand academically what the car is doing and how to correct it but the "feel" of a corner losing traction only comes with experience. But I'm sure you were just being facetious.

You can go on and on about how real drivers don't need the aids and awareness is key blah blah blah

There are too many variables in the real world to say these are unnecessary for any more than 1% of drivers. They saved my ass a few weeks ago when a lady changed lanes doing 5 mph when I was doing ~45 mph (No need to tell me I should have been going 20mph slower to begin with, lesson learned), I slammed on the brakes and the ABS kicked in, I've never explored the limits of traction on this particular freeway (or any freeway for that matter) and in that moment there is no way I would have trusted myself, or anyone, to be able to toe the line between maintaining traction and skidding into the land of jacked up insurance rates and a wrecked Toyobaru.

Leave the aids on for day to day driving, it won't kill you, there are too many variables on todays roads to take the chance of ruining a life.

[Acree]

Mine are off every time, every day, rain or shine.

-Andrew

[SVTSHC]

I know all the pro racers claim driving skill can make up for the nannies, but part of the reason some of these nannies exist is because they do things that otherwise wouldn't be humanly possible without a larger margin for error.

A pro could no doubt correct an unexpected "oh shit" situation, but could a pro correct an unexpected "oh shit" situation in the distance or space the nannies can? MAYBE, but you gotta be daaaaaaamn good.

Either way driving with the nannies off when you aren't trying to have some fun is boneheaded anyway :happy0180:

[Miniata]

Mine are generally all off. I don't commute in my BRZ, so if I'm driving it, it is usually for fun. My warm weather daily driver is a modified Miata with no driver aids, not even ABS.

[Light-As-A-BRZ]

Originally Posted by LeeMaster

Hmmm.... were you driving on the off ramp near 94/35E heading west just out of downtown st paul? Because THAT was where I almost shit my pants the other day, lol.

Nope, this was in the Hwy 101 exit to Hwy 212 West, in the SW Metro. I'm sure this type of condition is present in many an on-ramp in our area. I now look at the bridge icing warnings in a whole new light.

[Ganthrithor]

Lack of ABS was one of the two big factors (the other being running costs) that persuaded me not to buy an old 911. Sure, I'm sure it would be fine while you're out for a drive, but at 2AM after 18 hours at work or a zillion hours into some awful road trip I don't trust myself to be awake enough to threshold-brake properly in an emergency.

[kilrb]

I was coming back to work from lunch today, and took a corner in a spirited manner. I was pushing it fairly hard, but not totally to the limits. The curve went up over a slight hill, and I couldn't see the pavement ahead, although I'm familiar with the curve. Well, there was some runoff from some melted snow just after the crest of the hill, and when I hit it, it started to come out sideways on me at 35mph. As I felt it come loose, I had just started to let off the gas, and let the wheel counter steer when I felt the nannies kick the right brakes hard, and BAM!, I was straight. Pretty damned good. It's sort of scary to "what if" the scenario, wondering what would have happened without the nannies... I'd like to think my countermeasures would have been good enough, but given the slick ground and speed, I'd say there's a good chance I would have had a hard time keeping it straight...

[dori.]

I'll be honest, I've driven the car enough now that I know by feel when the car will start to slide. It's one of the most forgiving cars (out of what I've driven) in that aspect too.

[ilpad]

The only reason I drive with my nannies off is in the event i feel like playing with the oversteer of the car. I'll often times go out late at night and play around with my skinny prius tires while i still have them on my car. Getting new wheels/tires soon and its my intent to have ruined the stockers by the time they get here. The car is so easy to hang the back end out that even an unexperienced driver should be able to get the hang of it with a little deserted parking lot / industrial complex work. (I will admit, i spun it 3 times my first day playing drift king, but don't tell anyone!)

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Cue mental picture of smartcar being Chris Harris'ed around a frozen lake.

I went through one really bad winter with. Once I got snow tires on it going through the snow was great.

[BRZfan]

Wow! How did I ever survive all these years without VSC, TCS, ABS, and EBD. Not to mention SRS, TPMS and the DRLs.

Subaru goes on to say (not that we need to to be told this) that "All Subaru vehicles sold by Subaru of America, Inc. are designed and built for normal driving conditions. The Subaru Limited Warranty, as well as the Subaru Added Security System program, excludes damage or failure resulting from modifications or participation in competition or racing events". *

* source: Brochure - 2012 Subaru of America, Inc. 13.BRZSRB.525 (S-13466, 80k, 4?12, (CG)

[TeamZleep]

Originally Posted by BRZfan

Wow! How did I ever survive without VSC, TCS, ABS, and EBD.

Lol. Agreed.

[BlaineWasHere]

I do commute in my FR-S and I ALWAYS leave them on when I'm driving on the street. The street isn't a place to have the ass end out anyway. So why do you need the aids off on the street again?!?

There are plenty of trackdays, autoX, and drift events if you want to have fun, that's where I have my fun!