Oil Cooler kit for FI applications, getting one?

[Dave-ROR]

Yeah without preventing air from bypassing the radiator (and other coolers) it'll be tough to make sure air flow isn't described. We won't find an oil cooler to fill the space completely so that's unavoidable too

[RYU]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

In the that other VMIC thread where the turbo FRS was driven at the track, the host commented that it "got hot" and in that he was referring to the Coolant. If the cooling capacity of the radiator is already taxed, trying to cool your 300F oil may not be the right route to take in addressing your heating/cooling problems. In this case having your oil cooling separate from your coolant cooling will be more effective in evacuating heat.

Agree here also. I like oil-to-water in general because the heat transfer coefficient of water is way better than air. In other words, oil-to-water is better than oil-to-air. However, if the heat being evacuated from the oil goes into an already hot water/coolant then you're also SOL (what @rice_classic is saying). I also like that you don't need an oil cooler thermostat because the engine coolant will regulate the oil temp in the internal oil cooler. It's all a pro/con compromise I guess.

Only testing will tell! Again, please post your results.

I still contest that a radiator designed for low air flow (i.e. better fin design) and made out of copper (copper has better heat transfer coefficient than aluminum at the expense of weight) is the right solution for FI applications where FMIC are used.

[rice_classic]

I'll drink to that!

[Supermassive]

I think the biggest problem with the stock radiator is that its rather thin compared to what i am used to. Here's a comparison to a koyo core for our car:



Thats not a lot of surface area, so i could see why this car has heat issues especially if the water pump is pushing water through that skinny core faster than it can cool it. With the added surface area of an aftermarket core i think the flow will also slow a bit to allow the water to cool more before leaving the radiator. I could be really wrong but, I'm pretty sure the added volume + cooling area would effectively cool the engine better.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

Thats not a lot of surface area, so i could see why this car has heat issues especially if the water pump is pushing water through that skinny core faster than it can cool it. With the added surface area of an aftermarket core i think the flow will also slow a bit to allow the water to cool more before leaving the radiator. I could be really wrong but, I'm pretty sure the added volume + cooling area would effectively cool the engine better.

Surface area is key.
The speed of the water actually is the opposite; The faster the water moves through, the more passes it makes through the radiator in the same amount of time, the smaller the temperature variation, and the greater turbulence/surface velocity helps improve thermal conductivity by a little. However in a car engine, the water is flowing pretty quickly so this isn't something you have to worry much about.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by RYU

Agree here also. I like oil-to-water in general because the heat transfer coefficient of water is way better than air. In other words, oil-to-water is better than oil-to-air. However, if the heat being evacuated from the oil goes into an already hot water/coolant then you're also SOL (what @rice_classic is saying). I also like that you don't need an oil cooler thermostat because the engine coolant will regulate the oil temp in the internal oil cooler. It's all a pro/con compromise I guess.

Only testing will tell! Again, please post your results.

I still contest that a radiator designed for low air flow (i.e. better fin design) and made out of copper (copper has better heat transfer coefficient than aluminum at the expense of weight) is the right solution for FI applications where FMIC are used.

You don't want an oil cooler thermostat because you want the oil to warm up quickly upon starts, and that means absorbing heat from the water in the warmup phase before the coolant thermostat opens.

While copper sounds attractive at first, you have to remember that "copper" usually means brass tubes, joined with something like solder, which don't have great thermal conductivity. On top of that, brass, copper, and tin are all over 3 times the density of aluminum, and you might need to start paying attention to corrosion in the aluminum block though the antifreeze usually makes it a non-issue. An aluminum radiator of the same mass can be bigger and ultimately transfer more heat.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

You don't want an oil cooler thermostat because you want the oil to warm up quickly upon starts, and that means absorbing heat from the water in the warmup phase before the coolant thermostat opens.

While copper sounds attractive at first, you have to remember that "copper" usually means brass tubes, joined with something like solder, which don't have great thermal conductivity. On top of that, brass, copper, and tin are all over 3 times the density of aluminum, and you might need to start paying attention to corrosion in the aluminum block though the antifreeze usually makes it a non-issue. An aluminum radiator of the same mass can be bigger and ultimately transfer more heat.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I think we're both agreeing that you don't want an oil cooler thermostat for the oil-to-water. You will need one (or should run one) if you have a stand alone oil-to-air cooler.

A copper solution still has merit, though I do echo some of your concerns. Let's wait and see... I know the copper vs. alum heat exchanger has been a debate for decades and i've been surprised by what i've seen especially in the Server CPU world.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

I think the biggest problem with the stock radiator is that its rather thin compared to what i am used to. Here's a comparison to a koyo core for our car:



Thats not a lot of surface area, so i could see why this car has heat issues especially if the water pump is pushing water through that skinny core faster than it can cool it. With the added surface area of an aftermarket core i think the flow will also slow a bit to allow the water to cool more before leaving the radiator. I could be really wrong but, I'm pretty sure the added volume + cooling area would effectively cool the engine better.

Is that koyo 100% drop in? Does it use the OEM fans or do they provide/recommend aftermarket fans? Does it keep the AC condensers?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by RYU

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I think we're both agreeing that you don't want an oil cooler thermostat for the oil-to-water. You will need one (or should run one) if you have a stand alone oil-to-air cooler.

I would definitely run one with a seperate oil-to-air cooler, unless it's an endurance race car then it's fine without one

[Supermassive]

Originally Posted by RYU

Is that koyo 100% drop in? Does it use the OEM fans or do they provide/recommend aftermarket fans? Does it keep the AC condensers?

100% drop in heres the link to the site where they go step by step for the install:

http://www.garagefrs.com/koyo-radiator-install/

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by RYU

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I think we're both agreeing that you don't want an oil cooler thermostat for the oil-to-water. You will need one (or should run one) if you have a stand alone oil-to-air cooler.

A copper solution still has merit, though I do echo some of your concerns. Let's wait and see... I know the copper vs. alum heat exchanger has been a debate for decades and i've been surprised by what i've seen especially in the Server CPU world.

Haha yup, I machined some waterblocks for my computer when I was in 8th grade so I know all about that. For a car low mass is really important, and since the block is already aluminum you might as well just use aluminum for compatibility. It's a pretty clear choice imo, especially since the radiators in the market are all aluminum.

[Stealthx]

If you track or mod the car, there is NO negative to an oil cooler. There are only positives. It helps your engine in general to stay cooler and have a better life expectancy when it's being thrashed on. And if your boosted, it aam cools engine and possibly turbo oil etc. for the most part, I would say fab your on. Don't be scared, it's extremely simple. And it will save a lot f money. Mostly you an also have higher quality parts and lines and cooler core like setrab for instance. Don't skimp on an extremely effective and reliability parts of the car/build. Pm me if anyone needs info of what they need or where to get pars. I've built plenty of them for all my cars, most notably the 370z which everyone knows ran very hot.

[RYU]

Originally Posted by Stealthx

If you track or mod the car, there is NO negative to an oil cooler. There are only positives. It helps your engine in general to stay cooler and have a better life expectancy when it's being thrashed on. And if your boosted, it aam cools engine and possibly turbo oil etc. for the most part, I would say fab your on. Don't be scared, it's extremely simple. And it will save a lot f money. Mostly you an also have higher quality parts and lines and cooler core like setrab for instance. Don't skimp on an extremely effective and reliability parts of the car/build. Pm me if anyone needs info of what they need or where to get pars. I've built plenty of them for all my cars, most notably the 370z which everyone knows ran very hot.

Glad you chimed in. +1 on the Setrab units. I'll probably use the Mocal sandwich plate but not sure if I can use AN10 fittings/hoses with that yet. There's the new slip fit high pressure hose people use these days but the lack of a fastener scares me. You have good luck with these?

You can see the slip-fit fittings i'm talking about here. It's the black hose butted up against the plastic collar on the AN10 elbow fitting.

[JoeBoxer]

My distributor has pricing for the Perrin kits now, much more reasonable than the hks or Greddy. Pm me if interested I think it's pretty reasonable I plan to get one if I ever get boosted.