In love..<3 Gaurd Transmission LSD

[kanundrum]

Thanks I was thinking about a LSD unit for my autocross but I may hold off lets see

[Simmons]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

I hate to be a nay-sayer, but you know the stock diff is something like a 4:1 bias ratio. It's a BIG bias Torsen. The Torsen in a Boss 302 Laguna Seca is 2.8:1. And I've use 4:1 Torsens to win National Championships in cars with a lot more power.

I have seen nothing that even has me considering a change for any of my other customers (certainly not myself). I keep wondering if I should just build my car all the way, but it's hard to justify since I prefer to run Super Stock and have a pretty good car for it too with 436 hp.

Working on a full build the way I think it should be done with a fellow National Champion as I type this.

EDIT: The Miata Scott Fraser has now won 2 Championships in, in CSP (and top PAX this year) has a regular old Torsen in it. And it's not nearly as much bias ratio either. Just sayin'.

Anyone I know?


Simmons

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by Scooby South

He actually used Kartboys Rear diff for the development..




Bill

Yup. Shipped it to him and left his car on the lift, no doubt further delaying shifter development >:[

[Scooby South]

@Sam Strano .. I trust your judgement...I really do. But I am also wanting to make sure I don't leave any stone unturned.. I don't doubt that the car would be competitive the way it is...however; with that said, I also know some Cars that have done very well with a Clutch diff... the Grassroots Car comes to mind..and I can't get the article out of my mind on how the diff transformed the car. Bill Schenker was quoted as saying it made up a 1.0 sec difference in his CSP Miata.. I personally don't think the BRZ/FRS can take the BIG prize without it being done .. and Simmons...you go boy..

Bill

[Sam Strano]

If you guys want to build cars on heresay, that's fine. All I know is Fraser won, twice, Schenker hasn't.

I've had the same things happen with every car I've driven. I've heard how a Corvette can't beat a Lotus. I think I disproved that. I heard that I couldn't be competitive on 'normal' shocks... well, got a closet full of coats that say otherwise. I've won over cars that weighed up to 150 pounds less (and with a driver that has multiple jackets and weighs 150 pounds less), and I'm talking about the same model car. And I was on only 11" wheels all around, no flares and 12's in the back or Triple Penske's (that's two different cars with multiple jacket winners driving).

As a guy who sells parts, I should be happy to see people going nuts. But spending money doesn't necessarily mean better. Better means better. I identify issues first, I'm a competitor, and one who wins pretty often. And I manage to do it without spending ever last dime I ever made on what looks trick or is a "good deal". I jokingly tell people all the time, you buying crap you don't need isn't any different than a woman going nuts at Costco or something buying stuff they don't need. Need to me means you identify an issue you seek to fix. No issue, no need.

I'm probably nuts, but it's how I work. I only hope folks realize I try hard to have good prices, but even when I'm not the cheapest, that's how I work... and that will save them money in the end.

[Scooby South]

How do you know if you don't try??? I hear you.. and have no dog in the National level fight...till this year.. that doesn't mean I can't drive. As far as hearsay.. I have alot of other folks weighing in on subjects that DO have some experience, so I take all with a grain of salt and try to make an educated decision on my own. I am no stranger to building cars either. I respect you more than you probably know, and the 'arrangement' I have with this diff is that I don't have to worry if I get some inside wheel lift. I will still be able to put, what little power I have, down and still be able to come off the corner hard.. what happens when the Torsion gets into a lift situation??? Thats my point..

Bill

[Scooby South]

Oh and for the record...I told you from the beginning I am making a serious National Effort with this. Competition is good...right???

[kanundrum]

Thanks for doing it for the all of us! Im just sticking with Local as SCCA is a bit too serious for me! haha

[Sam Strano]

I disagree respectfully if you think there is no issue if an inside rear tire comes up, the only way that is at all true is with a spool... and even then you have less tire on the ground applying power.

Not only that. I've never once in an autox situation with this car, the way I have mine setup which isn't the same exactly as yours, had any inside rear wheel spin. Something I've very attuned to from Mustang, Camaro over the years. In fact about 1/2 the speed difference between an FS and an ESP car circa early 2000's was the limited slip improvements.

Variety is the spice of life I guess.

Where did I say you couldn't drive???? How do you know that the change you make isn't for worse? It's called an educated decision. If you don't have inside wheelspin, what's the goal of a different differential? Just to be different? I'm getting used to being a lightning rod, those that don't sit back often are and that's certainly not me... I don't sit idly by. I've not said anything out of the way here, I never called your driving into question... And if anything I get crap about how I can win with less. While flattering I think it's not true, I just think "more" isn't always better and often people go to far. I see it all the time. Then when they want me to fix it, they think I'm too conservative. Well, being too aggressive is often what got them in trouble and they need reigned in a bit, but by then it's too late.

I guess I'm just a little upset that you seem to think I've called you a bad driver and I guess other things Bill. I was very specific with my reasoning, at least *I* think so. I know you are making an effort. You point to where a guy who hasn't won, and got beaten by a stock differential in the same type car said the diff he's running (which you equated to shopping @ Wal-Mart for your performance parts) was worth 1 sec. So what would a diff like this be worth, in your mind? Anyway, if you added up all those claims from E85 to the splitter and spoiler and all the car should check out by 2 seconds a day. Never happens. I don't know what else to say.....

Funny story: I know a guy that used to be really, really fast in a very competitive class. Then he started screwing with the new trick shocks, and was the only one in the class that had them... he won one event over the next two years with all the same folks running all the same old setup stuff they always had. Then he moved on, and bought the same shocks for his new car before he even drove it for a baseline. Struggled for years. Called me for help, I had him revalve the shocks my way, much more conservatively than they had be before and he ended up 3rd at Nationals 3 weeks or so later. He was in the 20's the year before. You know what. He moved onto a different class... forgot all about me... and has struggled despite the car having "the best" of everything. You can lead a horse to water.......

[JoeBoxer]

The car is coming along nicely bill, hopefully I get to meet up with you sometime this year and go for a ride. Hopefully you could take mine for a spin also and give me some advice.

[Scooby South]

Sam...no...its a misconception on my part...Nothing you have said had anything to do with my driving.... I just don't have the 'National' level driving experience that you and some others have.. and I recognize that... I am just for my own benefit, coming to the table armed and don't EVER want to blame the car for not winning. I can blame my driving and my setup if I have to.. but I want the car to remain as good as it can be

your fine...like I say I respect you more than you know.. But I also want to make sure I give myself the BEST chance I can too.

Bill

[Jedi1]

If the car is not lifting the inside rear wheel then I just can't see where the expense is justified. On the other hand, if you have the means to try it and go into the whole thing with a "let's see where this goes and if it goes wrong I'm willing to admit it and go back to what worked" attititude then no harm no fowl.

Having said that. I'm guessing Sam has not experienced any wheel life with his new front bar. I am glad that nobody running that bar has mentioned it, becuase mine should be heading this way soon! lol.

[kanundrum]

fit good on your 17x9 rpf1?

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by Scooby South

Sam...no...its a misconception on my part...Nothing you have said had anything to do with my driving.... I just don't have the 'National' level driving experience that you and some others have.. and I recognize that... I am just for my own benefit, coming to the table armed and don't EVER want to blame the car for not winning. I can blame my driving and my setup if I have to.. but I want the car to remain as good as it can be

your fine...like I say I respect you more than you know.. But I also want to make sure I give myself the BEST chance I can too.

Bill

As long as you know I'm not trying to be a prick...

I think what maybe you're missing is that swapping parts doesn't always = a better chance. Differentials effect handling. A tight clutched diff will make the car tighter than with a Torsen style unit. A car with power that might not be a big deal as you can steer with throttle.. this car doesn't have much power, and already have a big bias ratio Torsen to apply what it does have.

If you are worried about picking up a wheel, and based on some photos I've see of your car I think you might have that issue here and there on high grip surfaces... well that's where more front roll stiffness helps. Keep the tire on the ground and what's the issue?

I really need to learn to just keep my mouth shut. It seems the more and more "experts" that are around, the more and more I end up arguing over what I think are pretty simple things.