Toyota rep at Frankfurt IAA said FT-86 weight will be 1,160kg (2,555 pounds)

[Aki]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Aki, please dont use a elise as an example as that car is way lighter than a miata. The new elise goes to 60 in 4.7 seconds. Not a fair comparison in feel of acceleration.

I'm not talking about the new Elise, I'm talking about the 2004-ish Elise that I've driven, which goes 0-60 in 5.6-ish seconds. Relative to the 2012 GT-R I've floored, which does it about half that time, the Elise felt like a quicker car--not because it was faster, but because it's so raw (and a bit too harsh for daily driving). The GT-R for example, goes so fast and so effortlessly that you have to drive it a lot faster to feel like you're approaching the limit.

Hence, some cars are just too quick to be enjoyed on regular streets, and you got to take them to a track to fully appreciate their performance. With a slower car where the limit is lower, the fun of being at the limit is more easily attainable. Which is why a Miata is so fun--it feels so tossable and so neutral in corners, that even if you're going 40-50 mph you're having a ball. I don't want to have to pay $200 to go to Infineon Raceway to enjoy a car.

For me the ideal car is something that's daily-driver friendly, somewhat practical, yet has great RWD handling, lightness and a rigid chassis. Miata/S2000 didn't have the practicality front imo cus' of the two-seater convertible configuration (and wasn't a fan of the styling). The FT86 seems to fit the bill perfectly.

Rice is completely different. Rice is the visual illusion of being fast, not the sensation of speed in a corner.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Random_Art

The term "Rice" comes from "Rice Burner." Originally, it was slang used by military personnel during World War 2 to refer to Japanese fighter planes. Then, after the war ended and Japanese cars started showing up on our shores, the term resurfaced as a derogatory phrase to describe the japanese cars.

Fast forward to "The Fast and The Furious" and how people latched on to modifying cars to be as gaudy as possible with little performance added. Now "rice", as derogatory as ever, refers to any car that's drowning in cosmetic modifications as opposed to performance.

Rice: It's not just for Japanese anymore.

This is totally true. However rice has to be the most overused and played out term ever. Why can't people just say "tasteless" or "tacky"? In the FnF generation Rice did in fact mean mods that make the car "look fast" without actually "going fast" and not just Japanese cars (rice rockets)... see stuck-on hood pins, useless fender flares, scoops etc. All those mods have basis in motorsport (when authentic that is)...


p.s. I could have sworn the Chinese were more known for rice (re: actual rice) than the Japanese

[PACMAN]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

p.s. I could have sworn the Chinese were more known for rice (re: actual rice) than the Japanese

....Sushi

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by Aki

I

Hence, some cars are just too quick to be enjoyed on regular streets, and you got to take them to a track to fully appreciate their performance. With a slower car where the limit is lower, the fun of being at the limit is more easily attainable. Which is why a Miata is so fun--it feels so tossable and so neutral in corners, that even if you're going 40-50 mph you're having a ball. I don't want to have to pay $200 to go to Infineon Raceway to enjoy a car.

I think this comment right here summarizes how most of us feel regarding cars like the Miata. The problem these days is that every sport coupe is so quick but yet retains so little in the way of driver feel and neutral weight balance. The base Mustang V6 is a numbers monster but has absolutely no excitement to drive it. The 350z is the same in that regard. I had a solid yawn doing 70kph around a corner in a G37. In an Elise you can do the same speed around the same corner but it feels like your running from the cops! THAT is what a sports car should be.

[Mr.Jay]

Aki deff said it best

cars like the miata have a way of sucking you in, you feel so involed in the drive, you feel the road as the car feels the road, you feel the cars weight spin around you very controllably its just a much more driver focus experience I find. Cars like the 350z are easily faster but that feeling doesnt really translate the same way

its like one car feels like a great sports car with little power a great car to build upon but the other feels like a fast car that needs to lose weight

its the feeling of lightness and handeling really play a big part in that quick feel for me at least

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by spin9k

FT-86 2257lbs/200hp = 11.28
RX-8 3050lbs/237hp = 12.86 1/4m 14.5 0-60 ~6sec

Woah, where did that 2257 lbs number come from?:

FT86 2555 pounds / 200 hp = 12.78 (rumor in this thread)
FT86 2700 pounds / 200 hp = 13.50 (more common rumor)

On a side note, the RX8 in the USA was rated at 232 hp and started at ~2900 pounds (the 3000+ numbers on the USA website are for the loaded model). And most RX8 owners think it was slightly over-rated... I'd put it at closer to 225 hp. But 2900/225 is about the same ratio as your 3050/237 anyway.

Originally Posted by spin9k

Let's hope for the best, as I don't think the world really needs/wants annother Miata.

A four-seat Miata is exactly what I want.

Originally Posted by KAuss

I love the NC, but the whole Miata forum sees that as the bloated big brother that is bring shame to the family...

Many of us at miata.net recognize that the NC weighs only marginally more than the NB did at the end of its run. But yes rumors that the ND might lose weight are exciting.

Originally Posted by Aki

Hence, some cars are just too quick to be enjoyed on regular streets, and you got to take them to a track to fully appreciate their performance. With a slower car where the limit is lower, the fun of being at the limit is more easily attainable. Which is why a Miata is so fun--it feels so tossable and so neutral in corners, that even if you're going 40-50 mph you're having a ball. I don't want to have to pay $200 to go to Infineon Raceway to enjoy a car.

You took the words right out of my mouth. My last two cars (WRX, RX8) were significantly faster than my MX5, but they weren't as grin inducing.

Top Gear also put it nicely when they said, "the MX5 feels more alive at 30 MPH than most cars do at 100 MPH". Though a typical Top Gear exaggeration, the point is legitimate, and this is partly why I opted to get an MX5 (feels like you're going faster than you really are) rather than an S2k (makes you want to drive faster than you should).

Having written that, the NB is a tad on the underpowered side while the NC is fine. 200 hp for 2555-2700 pounds sounds good.

Originally Posted by Aki

For me the ideal car is something that's daily-driver friendly, somewhat practical, yet has great RWD handling, lightness and a rigid chassis. Miata/S2000 didn't have the practicality front imo cus' of the two-seater convertible configuration (and wasn't a fan of the styling). The FT86 seems to fit the bill perfectly.

Bingo. Finally someone is building a cheap, 4 seat, non-FWD momentum car.

[SUB-FT86]

I bet if I was to drive a miata I would never get the same feeling as you guys. The only light roadster that I have been in that feels fast was the s2k. But that feeling only came at full WOT. In my RSX when im using steptronic I get the sensation of speed but reality sets in when I look at the guage and look outside to see my car is barely moving. I know exactly what you guys mean.

[serialk11r]

lol, your RSX is slower than most sporty cars, but the S2K is going to be faster than this car. I hope you aren't too disappointed...

[SUB-FT86]

My RSX has a power/weight ratio very close to a miata of its time. 160hp/2700+ lbs vs 140/2400+ lbs. And even the new miata is 160hp/2550 lbs. Its not a big difference in my eyes.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I bet if I was to drive a miata I would never get the same feeling as you guys. The only light roadster that I have been in that feels fast was the s2k. But that feeling only came at full WOT. In my RSX when im using steptronic I get the sensation of speed but reality sets in when I look at the guage and look outside to see my car is barely moving. I know exactly what you guys mean.

I've driven many an RSX... not one aspect of that cars handling, steering, road feedback, or transmission is half as much fun as an NA Miata. The RSX has these limitations in common with 99% of the cars in the world.

- Top Gear also put it nicely when they said, "the MX5 feels more alive at 30 MPH than most cars do at 100 MPH". -

The above comment is absolute truth.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

My RSX has a power/weight ratio very close to a miata of its time. 160hp/2700+ lbs vs 140/2400+ lbs. And even the new miata is 160hp/2550 lbs. Its not a big difference in my eyes.

But it's a lot more than power/weight ratio.

The Miata has great weight balance. The RSX is front heavy. The Miata has great suspension geometry. The DC5 (RSX, Honda ITR) is known for its mediocre rear suspension geometry. They really crammed the multi-link in there, and it's one of the biggest criticisms of that chassis. I think the RSX was a fine car in its own right, but handling-feel wise it's miles apart from the Miata. There's just no replacing the feeling of RWD when the tail whips around.

Plus it's a lot easier adding power than to remove weight after buying the car. I'd rather them spend their time making this 2500-2600 lbs than to spend money on a quicker engine.

[SUB-FT86]

You know what? I will test a miata out one of these days. But my issue was never about the handling prowess of a Miata in case you guys forgot. I could tell the damn car is a good handling car just by looking at it. It isn't hard to make a tiny sports car really fun in the handling dept. With the right ingredients,attention to details and right balance it can be done.

I think if GM put there minds to it they could've made a helluva light sports car if they were to make a RWD version of the Cobalt SS which had the best time of any FWD car on the Ring.

[pastuch]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You know what? I will test a miata out one of these days. But my issue was never about the handling prowess of a Miata in case you guys forgot. I could tell the damn car is a good handling car just by looking at it. It isn't hard to make a tiny sports car really fun in the handling dept. With the right ingredients,attention to details and right balance it can be done.

My issue is getting made fun of at every fucking light. Even girls give me a hard time.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Aki

But it's a lot more than power/weight ratio.

The Miata has great weight balance. The RSX is front heavy. The Miata has great suspension geometry. The DC5 (RSX, Honda ITR) is known for its mediocre rear suspension geometry. They really crammed the multi-link in there, and it's one of the biggest criticisms of that chassis. I think the RSX was a fine car in its own right, but handling-feel wise it's miles apart from the Miata. There's just no replacing the feeling of RWD when the tail whips around.

Plus it's a lot easier adding power than to remove weight after buying the car. I'd rather them spend their time making this 2500-2600 lbs than to spend money on a quicker engine.

Don't forget the shitty mac strut design.

Honda's last good Integra hatchback was the DC2.