Toyota rep at Frankfurt IAA said FT-86 weight will be 1,160kg (2,555 pounds)

[Aki]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I think the reason you think the miata is fast is because 4 cylinder engines make a shit ton of noises but when you look at the mph you are going nowhere fast. My RSX and other light cars I've driven is known for that.

No it's not just that. Actually the Miata doesn't that much noise.

What makes a car feel fast is a lot of things. For one, it's the feeling of being at the limit, and what kind of sensation that imparts. It has a lot to do with how raw the car feels when pushed. How low it is. How much of the road you feel through the steering wheel. How isolated the cabin is from the road. The Elise for example feels so quick, even though it's got a 170hp engine (that feather weight helps too)--far quicker than cars that have a much better 0-60 time.

Why else would Tsuchiya love his AE86, in spite of having driven ARTA NSX racecars and countless exotics?

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Aki

Why else would Tsuchiya love his AE86, in spite of having driven ARTA NSX racecars and countless exotics?

If the above quote doesn't resonate with you just get a 370z or a used supra and be done with it.

[SUB-FT86]

Aki, please dont use a elise as an example as that car is way lighter than a miata. The new elise goes to 60 in 4.7 seconds. Not a fair comparison in feel of acceleration.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by RRnold

I don't know about that. The aesthetics of a car is the foundation of automotive design and the plays a roll in determining how sporty a vehicle is. Aerodynamics and ergonomics are correlated with performance, unless you like wind resistance and tons of drag.

I agree with the bold, thats fact. Its the underlined part I have a problem with, looks don't really add up to sportiness at all.

LOL @ the opinions of what FEELS fast, totally subjective. Now what IS fast, thats a different story.

[SUB-FT86]

Yeah thats my point. It is FACT the Z is fast as the numbers suggest. And it is a FACT that the miata is not faster. Im just puzzled by people saying the miata feels faster because the Z weighs more. That logic is flawed as there are heavier cars than a Z that feels faster and IS faster...

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I agree with the bold, thats fact. Its the underlined part I have a problem with, looks don't really add up to sportiness at all.

LOL @ the opinions of what FEELS fast, totally subjective. Now what IS fast, thats a different story.

time and time again, the people that built this car stated that the whole concept behind what they built was a car that FEELS fast, or what FEELS fun to the driver, and not what IS fast. like it or not that is what Tada-san and Tsuchiya have clearly stated, time and time again. if that's not what you're into then plain and simple these guys didn't build the kind of car that you'll like. we won't know anything until we have specs and can take one for a test drive but i can guarantee you if you're looking for a Z or pony car competitor you will be disappointed.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Dave you are so wrong. The Z isnt about big torque and small hp numbers. It isnt a diesel 2.0t. I feel no sensation of speed? Lmfao @ that part.

Where in the heck did I ever say another about small HP numbers or diesels?

You can laugh all you want. I have plenty of experience with 350s on street, autocross and track and my opinion is based on my experience with them. They are fast, but they don't really FEEL fast to me.

If they feel fast to you, great.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Aki

No it's not just that. Actually the Miata doesn't that much noise.

What makes a car feel fast is a lot of things. For one, it's the feeling of being at the limit, and what kind of sensation that imparts. It has a lot to do with how raw the car feels when pushed. How low it is. How much of the road you feel through the steering wheel. How isolated the cabin is from the road.

This is the same point I'm trying to make. Glad to see some others get it here as well.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by chulooz

LOL @ the opinions of what FEELS fast, totally subjective. Now what IS fast, thats a different story.

Well 99% of the conversations here are subjective really :P

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

Yeah thats my point. It is FACT the Z is fast as the numbers suggest. And it is a FACT that the miata is not faster. Im just puzzled by people saying the miata feels faster because the Z weighs more. That logic is flawed as there are heavier cars than a Z that feels faster and IS faster...

Of course the Z IS faster. I don't think anyone here has claimed otherwise. Feels faster is, again, about the sensation of feeling you get from the car, not from what numbers it puts down at the local dragstrip or roadcourse.

Which is faster on a track is objective and really has zero to do with whether or not I want a car personally. I want a car that I enjoy driving, not a car that puts down xx.x quarter mile times. I have a feeling that anyone here who wants a 13 second quarter mile car are going to be hugely disappointed.. I just hope those of us here to get a car that is engaging and fun to drive aren't also disappointed..

[SUB-FT86]

I think that's where the term ricer originated from. People thinking there car is faster than actual fast cars so they challenge everything at a stop light. I totally get it now. I always thought it was because of the bodykits and wings only. But theres more to it.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I think that's where the term ricer originated from. People thinking there car is faster than actual fast cars so they challenge everything at a stop light. I totally get it now. I always thought it was because of the bodykits and wings only. But theres more to it.

LOL I'm pretty sure it's just bodykits, wings, hellaflush, stance, stickers, etc.

People buy cars for different reasons. Some buy them just to impress others, some buy them just because of numbers on a sheet of paper or a magazine review, some buy them because they like the way they look, or the interior, etc and some buy them because they love driving them.

None of those reasons is more right than any other.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by chulooz

I agree with the bold, thats fact. Its the underlined part I have a problem with, looks don't really add up to sportiness at all.

LOL @ the opinions of what FEELS fast, totally subjective. Now what IS fast, thats a different story.

You might not think so but a car's design plays a role in what makes a sports car. If that wasn't the case, then there wouldn't be designs, mock ups, concepts, etc. You're looking at sporty from a performance aspect and if that was case, every car would look like an Ariel Atom.

[SUB-FT86]

Aerodynamics play a part in a sports car performance. If not then everything sporty would look like a brick with a ton of wind resistance. Thats one of the reasons why I disliked American muscle cars. They look like rectangle bricks.