Stance Vs Kw3 vs Fortune Autos?

[Future]

lol @ this thread... i'm running FA coilovers on my BRZ with Swift spring upgrade... they are simply amazing... few clicks = rides like stock (without body roll), more clicks = handles like a beast on the track...

[JoeBoxer]

I would take fortune over stance personally, I had a terrible experience with stance on my S14 they rode horribly.

[tfdave]

There are many factors to consider when choosing the right coilover system for your car. Some have advantages that may fit into what you're doing with your car so on with some info .

KW is a great suspension company and is the one of the goto highend coilover company. Their Variant line offers many advantages over others. Stainless casing is great for people that are subject to all weather conditions. Twintube design and the patented dual adjustment damping. But these points also offer some disadvantages. Stainless steel dissipates heat much slower which can lead to fade and aeration, which can hurt overall performance. Twintube is low pressure design, which allows for softer ride but is more prone to aeration. Twintube construction does not allow for inverted mounting, thus doesn't offer inverted setup for mcpherson type suspension.

Stance suspension mainly offers monotube coilovers for its many advantages. It allows for larger diameter piston and high pressure, which can react much faster to smallest movement, no dead spot. Since its single casing, oil can dissipate heat faster, less fade. Oil and gas are separated so it can be mounted inverted. There are clear advantages to the inverted design. That's why most high end cars come with inverted monotube from factory and most race cars use monotube design.

Here is a simple simulation showing the actual forces applied on both designs.

This test was done to simulate a 3200lbs car cornering at 2G's with no weight transfer. Force applied was 1600lbs. Results show that inverted design is 300% stiffer. Less deflection means less stress, less wear on the seals, less friction.

Left to right, Stance,Borchuan,KW.

Ride quality can be subjective and can be its own topic. Engineers at Stance have been building monotube suspension since 90's and developed a right balance of performance and ride quality. Key is digressive valving with good low speed damping, which gives it sporty yet non fatiguing ride.

Stance suspension has partnered with Cyber Evo team in late 2011 and is the current suspension of choice for the Cyber Evo. Big testament since Cyber team is not the one to settle for less. You can find more info on www.stance-usa.com



The Super Sport Coilovers are finally instock after many testings, revisions. It comes with adjustable camber plates,inverted dampers,adjustable sway bar endlinks.

[dabocx]

For me its coming down to FA or stance. Its a tough choice since i cant try them out and have to go based on online reviews

[ill roller]

Originally Posted by seven

You guys have put FAs an FR-S/BRZ already? Or any of the coilovers for that matter?

Nope, but having had experiences with all three brands on many other cars the choice is simple for me... KW if you have the money, or stance if you don't... I'm sure fortune autos do the job, but I know too many people that have had them and hated them, and I haven't like the ride as much on them, not to mention stance's customer service is phenominal like I said.

[JDMSushi]

Originally Posted by tfdave

There are many factors to consider when choosing the right coilover system for your car. Some have advantages that may fit into what you're doing with your car so on with some info .

KW is a great suspension company and is the one of the goto highend coilover company. Their Variant line offers many advantages over others. Stainless casing is great for people that are subject to all weather conditions. Twintube design and the patented dual adjustment damping. But these points also offer some disadvantages. Stainless steel dissipates heat much slower which can lead to fade and aeration, which can hurt overall performance. Twintube is low pressure design, which allows for softer ride but is more prone to aeration. Twintube construction does not allow for inverted mounting, thus doesn't offer inverted setup for mcpherson type suspension.

Stance suspension mainly offers monotube coilovers for its many advantages. It allows for larger diameter piston and high pressure, which can react much faster to smallest movement, no dead spot. Since its single casing, oil can dissipate heat faster, less fade. Oil and gas are separated so it can be mounted inverted. There are clear advantages to the inverted design. That's why most high end cars come with inverted monotube from factory and most race cars use monotube design.

Here is a simple simulation showing the actual forces applied on both designs.

This test was done to simulate a 3200lbs car cornering at 2G's with no weight transfer. Force applied was 1600lbs. Results show that inverted design is 300% stiffer. Less deflection means less stress, less wear on the seals, less friction.

Left to right, Stance,Borchuan,KW.

Ride quality can be subjective and can be its own topic. Engineers at Stance have been building monotube suspension since 90's and developed a right balance of performance and ride quality. Key is digressive valving with good low speed damping, which gives it sporty yet non fatiguing ride.

Stance suspension has partnered with Cyber Evo team in late 2011 and is the current suspension of choice for the Cyber Evo. Big testament since Cyber team is not the one to settle for less. You can find more info on

The Super Sport Coilovers are finally instock after many testings, revisions. It comes with adjustable camber plates,inverted dampers,adjustable sway bar endlinks.

Strong first post...

[SubieNate]

Strong first post, but a few errors.

Mainly, aeration shouldn't be a problem with KW because it's my understanding that they use a membrane between the gas and the fluid to eliminate the aeration problems twin tube designs have traditionally had.

Also, stating that one company has developed a "right" balance of performance and ride quality is a bit of a stretch. First of all, right is subjective. Second of all, that sounds a whole lot like an advertising claim.

Nathan

[jamal]

Originally Posted by tfdave

TTwintube design and the patented dual adjustment damping. But these points also offer some disadvantages. Stainless steel dissipates heat much slower which can lead to fade and aeration, which can hurt overall performance. Twintube is low pressure design, which allows for softer ride but is more prone to aeration. Twintube construction does not allow for inverted mounting, thus doesn't offer inverted setup for mcpherson type suspension.

Stance suspension mainly offers monotube coilovers for its many advantages. It allows for larger diameter piston and high pressure, which can react much faster to smallest movement, no dead spot. Since its single casing, oil can dissipate heat faster, less fade. Oil and gas are separated so it can be mounted inverted. There are clear advantages to the inverted design. That's why most high end cars come with inverted monotube from factory and most race cars use monotube design.

None of what I've quoted is very accurate. The very simple fact is that you get what you pay for. You can talk about twin vs monotube and inverted struts all day long but that has nothing to do with the R&D that goes into the valving and quality control. And I can call the inverted design a disadvantage in the same way you're calling it an advantage. It means that the piston rod is smaller because it does not need to support any lateral forces, so there is less displacement in the shock. On the higher end ones with that external compression reservoir, that means it takes more motion of the shock to get the bump valving working. Plus inverted shocks tend to have stiction and clunking issues. All that surface area between the insert and housing means that it takes more initial force to get the shock moving.

KW can be found on many REAL race cars and not just a time attack car. Most of the top TA cars in the US are on KW or JRZ. Also, have you seen these?



This is a non-inverted monotube and I'm pretty sure it's stiffer than an inverted stance coilover, and doesn't have any stiction issues because it uses linear bearings in the housing. Yes, it's expensive and you can't get them for the BRZ yet. It's meant for tarmac rally where a strong, rigid shock is very important. Very few of the high end motorsports (not rally) offerings for Subaru struts are inverted, and when I talked to JRZ about it for a time attack car they didn't see much reason to go that way.

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by jamal

None of what I've quoted is very accurate. The very simple fact is that you get what you pay for. You can talk about twin vs monotube and inverted struts all day long but that has nothing to do with the R&D that goes into the valving and quality control. KW can be found on many REAL race cars and not just a time attack car that didn't even turn a competitive lap on Stance suspension this year. Also, have you seen these?



Pretty sure it's stiffer than an inverted stance coilover (although I admit it costs quite a bit more).

Good post.

I question any manufacturer who claims their product is good just because race team x uses it. Did race team x get that product for free, and what kind of budget were they on? There are lots of people out there who will plaster all kinds of ads on their car for the right amount of free kit, be it from a subpar brand or not.

There are "race teams" using BC coilovers and it's been shown time and again that their valving is crap.

Nathan

[track_warrior]

KW had track time at the nurburgring with the toyobarus and did a lot of R&D so i leave it to you to decide.

[robispec]

KW also has BMW's (F1) old 5 post rig....got it on a DEAL for 3.5M euros.. yes those german boys are SERIOUS...
the 24hr race at Nurinburg starts with KW race dampers on about 38% of the field but Finishers are 65% KW users...
oh DOUBLE ADJUSTABLE....you buying apples or cabage? (no singles are not oranges or any other kind of fruit). having SEPERATE compession and rebound valves is also a design PLUS of a twin tube as you have Zero "crosstalk" between the bump and rebound valves unlike most monotubes.
Jamal those are secret sauce dampers! (and yes i have some for my FRS...hehehe).

[WillRacer1jz]

Originally Posted by robispec

KW also has BMW's (F1) old 5 post rig....got it on a DEAL for 3.5M euros..

It's a 7 post shaker rig and as far as I know KW is the only aftermarket supension manufacture with one. Check out the video in the link.
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...n-is-born.aspx

[EarlQHan]

Originally Posted by robispec

KW also has BMW's (F1) old 5 post rig....got it on a DEAL for 3.5M euros.. yes those german boys are SERIOUS...
the 24hr race at Nurinburg starts with KW race dampers on about 38% of the field but Finishers are 65% KW users...
oh DOUBLE ADJUSTABLE....you buying apples or cabage? (no singles are not oranges or any other kind of fruit). having SEPERATE compession and rebound valves is also a design PLUS of a twin tube as you have Zero "crosstalk" between the bump and rebound valves unlike most monotubes.
Jamal those are secret sauce dampers! (and yes i have some for my FRS...hehehe).

Saying 65% of finishers were on KW is irrelevant. You are implying KW's helped those teams chances of finishing, but rarely do you hear of damper failure being the main reason for a DNF. In recent years the winners have been on Bilsteins anyways.

[silversprint]

KW sells the basic street stuff like the V3 or the $7k real race suspension. There is nothing wrong with the V3 but that is not what the professional race teams run.

I think most high end suspension manufacturer sell really high end race suspension to real race teams but what the majority of people buy is a suspension designed for the street.

The problem I have with stance is that their pistons are mostly linear. Their inverted shocks don't have a nitrogen refill. It's welded shut at the factory so it's not really revalveable. The advantage is that the fill valve can never leak but to revalve them you have to drill the nitrogen chamber. Their quality is good and their valving is in the general area.