Manual driving method

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by whaap

With todays modern synchromesh transmissions the last thing you will ever need to know in driving your car is how to double clutch. Rev matching will do the job for you.

just curious! why rev match? i need to learn why!

[2point0]

Originally Posted by Snozzberries

Your tires have 100% to give and if you are asking for 70% in steering and 60% in acceleration or breaking you are going to have a bad time.

^THIS.

You basically have a traction allowance. You can use it on acceleration, deceleration or turning. You can spend a little here and a little there, but once you've spent it all, it's gone.

[DanoFA20]

Advice from me, experienced on the twisties, learning a road and its lines going slow will gradually make you faster. take a twistie road at a low rate of speed. and take the smoothes shortest path from corner entrance to corner exit. thats the easiest way to learn beginner lines on a "track" or course.

to be totally honest, you cant learn driving technique or lines by reading. you have to just get out there and do it. its the only way i feel is the right way to learn.


you can read to get a general understanding of what is to be expected while doing said driving.

But the only way to get better is to practice . try doing what i suggested, take a simple smooth line enter in the corner go inside exit outside. dont need to be aggressive or matting the pedal just get a feel for the transitions of entering a corner exiting a corner.

once you get comfortable then you can start increasing speed, and picking your own line which is what highly experienced drivers do.

this is a basic apex line for a race track. on the straight away before entering a corner youd like to be hard on the brakes and do all of it before you decide to actually enter the corner , before entering release the brake pedal start to aim for a vantage spot and hit the "apex" or the straightest line in the corner. when you hit that apex you get on the throttle but not all the way give it 50% throttle and slowly increase the % of throttle you give it. while exiting until you have the wheel straight and the car is coming out of the corner.

its kinda hard to explain it id really have to show you its the only way i can teach someone really.

well i hope this helps a little for anyone who reads it.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by frosty86

agreed.

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by IntotheOcean

If I do get this car *cough cough hell yeah* -spring 13-
We'll have to go to a frs car show-Theres gotta be one around here. I have no clue where you find out about those things?
Driving to work one day I saw a camaro lineup in the parking lot and was like "I NEED to get over there" haha I started to brake and everything.
But don't get me started on mustangs-I feel like I cant throw a rock without hitting one. (No offense to anyone just my opinion)
*yep totally off topic, sorry*

i know i see stuff like that around here all the time , i on the other hand live on some of the most twistie insane roads youll see, basically, bunta and takumi fujiwara would love my roads. they be like Akina sucks now.

Just go to google maps type in this address and zoom all the way to eye view and just journey up the road on your map tell me what you think these are the types of marvelous roads i get to drive on day in and day out.

Atwood Road, Stone Ridge, NY

[IntotheOcean]

Originally Posted by DanoFA20

i know i see stuff like that around here all the time , i on the other hand live on some of the most twistie insane roads youll see, basically, bunta and takumi fujiwara would love my roads. they be like Akina sucks now.

Just go to google maps type in this address and zoom all the way to eye view and just journey up the road on your map tell me what you think these are the types of marvelous roads i get to drive on day in and day out.

Atwood Road, Stone Ridge, NY

I have ios 6 so I couldn't see any roads....

Haha I'm just kidding wow I'm jealous, I bet the view is very beautiful as well-I miss seeing roads like that... Lots of trees.... my way to work is all pretty much a straight line (sunrise highway) good for pony cars. BUT southern state Parkway is a whole other story

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by IntotheOcean

I have ios 6 so I couldn't see any roads....

Haha I'm just kidding wow I'm jealous, I bet the view is very beautiful as well-I miss seeing roads like that... Lots of trees.... my way to work is all pretty much a straight line (sunrise highway) good for pony cars. BUT southern state Parkway is a whole other story

you should come up here one day ill how you how nice these roads are you could drive slow and its still fun

[whaap]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

just curious! why rev match? i need to learn why!

This is for down shifting. You're predicting ahead of time where the engine rpm's will be when you take into consideration your speed and the gear you're intending to go into. If you have your revs matched up with your speed and the new, intended gear then there will be considerably less wear on your clutch after you have shifted into that new gear and when you release the clutch. Every thing will be in harmony and the shift will go smoothly.

[DanoFA20]

not perfect video but good enough concept [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=553FeQDwI_U"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=553FeQDwI_U[/ame]
this is the jyst of rev matching again i cant really describe it id have to show you and youd have to practice

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by whaap

This is for down shifting. You're predicting ahead of time where the engine rpm's will be when you take into consideration your speed and the gear you're intending to go into. If you have your revs matched up with your speed and the new, intended gear then there will be considerably less wear on your clutch after you have shifted into that new gear and when you release the clutch. Every thing will be in harmony and the shift will go smoothly.

i understand,however,can you expand on your statement of "reducing wear"
on the clutch!..how does "rev matching" accomplish this? thanks!

[akuhei]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

i understand,however,can you expand on your statement of "reducing wear"
on the clutch!..how does "rev matching" accomplish this? thanks!

If you just use the clutch, it acts as a buffer until the engine effectively catches up to the speed that the transmission is all ready spinning. Using the clutch as a buffer as such will wear on the clutch (over a very long period of time). If you rev match, the engine and the gear you are going into on the tranny match up, therefore the buffer isnt needed and you arent wearing on the clutch (and tranny, and rest of the drive train parts), effectively making it last longer.

[jmaryt]

ic! after driving "stick" for over 45 years,i am of the opinion this is
not necessary,as action of the clutch,releasing,and engaging,is what it is designed to do,
and the TRUE wearing part is the ''throw-out" bearing anyway! THIS part,in MY experience,
is the "only" part to be concerned with over time,as the clutch is "hydraulic" and requires no adjustment! again,it has been MY experience,that if you "get your foot" off the clutch,and shift cleanly,WITHOUT partially engaging the clutch ie: holding the car on an incline,then your transmission should literally last a very,very, long time WITHOUT "rev matching"! unless i'm mistaken,this '"rev matching" was done many, many, years ago when trucks were equipped with "road ranger" transmissions,and engine "revs" "had" to be matched with tranny revs in order to "engage" the next gear,either up,or down in the box.the transmission "had" to be shifted this way,because long ago the transmissions gear train was made up of "conical'" gear shapes which "required" "double clutching",OR rev matching,if you will, so the gears would "mesh" properly.with the introduction of "helical" shaped gears,AND "synchros" double clutching,and rev matching
was no longer necessary.the "helical" shaped gear teeth allowed much easier "meshing" of the gears as they engaged,and as long as the clutch was released,and engaged cleanly,
with no "partial engagement" conditions ie: resting one;s foot on the clutch while driving,then theoretically very little wear will take place over time,with of course,the exception
once again of the "throw-out" bearing which is the "weakest" link from a wear point of view.

[akuhei]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

ic! after driving "stick" for over 45 years,i am of the opinion this is
not necessary,as action of the clutch,releasing,and engaging,is what it is designed to do,
and the TRUE wearing part is the ''throw-out" bearing anyway! THIS part,in MY experience,
is the "only" part to be concerned with over time,as the clutch is "hydraulic" and requires no adjustment! again,it has been MY experience,that if you "get your foot" off the clutch,and shift cleanly,WITHOUT partially engaging the clutch ie: holding the car on an incline,then your transmission should literally last a very,very, long time WITHOUT "rev matching"! unless i'm mistaken,this '"rev matching" was done many, many, years ago when trucks were equipped with "road ranger" transmissions,and engine "revs" "had" to be matched with tranny revs in order to "engage" the next gear,either up,or down in the box.the transmission "had" to be shifted this way,because long ago the transmissions gear train was made up of "conical'" gear shapes which "required" "double clutching",OR rev matching,if you will, so the gears would "mesh" properly.with the introduction of "helical" shaped gears,AND "synchros" double clutching,and rev matching
was no longer necessary.the "helical" shaped gear teeth allowed much easier "meshing" of the gears as they engaged,and as long as the clutch was released,and engaged cleanly,
with no "partial engagement" conditions ie: resting one;s foot on the clutch while driving,then theoretically very little wear will take place over time,with of course,the exception
once again of the "throw-out" bearing which is the "weakest" link from a wear point of view.

While this is all likely true, the general use of rev matching has little to do with possible effects on the drive train anyway (though most will say that it reduces strain..as i posted before). The need for rev matching is currently used for racing or taking corners at high speeds. The release of the clutch causes a momentary slowing (Or stopping) of the tires...which can cause a car to shudder or twitch..which can lead to spinning out. Matching the speed of the engine to the speed of the transmission(and tires ultimately) offers a cleaner shift and less sudden torque applied to the drive train, reducing wear and avoiding crashing at higher speeds nearing or taking a turn.

But..with 45 years of driving "stick"...i am sure you knew all of this.

[jmaryt]

yes! once the clutch is released and the gears are allowed to "'spin" free, this causes a momentary "loss" of power,and slowing,until the next gear is engaged.i have never raced,BUT at higher "speeds" i can understand how the "sudden" "torque" loading could have a detrimental effect on the transmission,however,again,"high speeds",along with very violent,''tight" turning would have to be experienced for this to be any kind of transmission "wearing " issue! in my view,normal driving over a long period of time would present "negligible" wear issues,so "rev matching" would NOT be necessary!