Manual driving method

[frosty86]

Let's have a correct driving method thread. I'm starting this thread for educational reference so please leave the elitist attitude out the door (unless you're the real michael schumacher).

Question Examples:

• Shifting point for comfort/performance driving
• What gear to be in for what speed
• RPM band:MPH
• Different methods to downshift/upshift
• What to do when losing control

I guess i'll start.

What I would want to learn is how to downshift smoothly and properly. I've heard of...

• heel-to-toe (which I can't do yet because my foot doesn't bend that way..yet)
• double clutching (confirmed to be useless for cars with synchro)

Since lots of highway exits in Hawaii are so short/close/narrow and I can't do the two listed above in that short amount of time... I use my own improvised method, which is shifting down into gear, tapping the gas (rev-match) while clutch is fully pressed and then gently releasing the clutch (this cant be good in the long run can it?). My main issue is doing this on the highway where I need to rapidly go down from 5th > 4th > 3rd on the exit(s). Low speed city driving isn't much of an issue. Do you know any other way till I master either heel-to-toe or double clutching? I'd hate to damage my car.

edit: thanks for the answers guys, I got better understanding of it now.

[636]

Jumping over everything else, double clutching is an out-dated, pointless manner of downshifting. Especially with the synchros in the 86's.

Just rev-match, and you'll produce the same results, faster, and much easier. You're really not damaging anything unless your burning the clutch on the way out. You'll learn through time where the sweet spot is and it'll become second nature.

[TuxedoCartman]

Wow... lots of stuff to address here.

First of all, there's no set-in-stone point to shift for comfort or performance. Does it sound or feel like your engine is working harder than it should be? Then shift up. Does it feel like it's bogging down, or gurgling, or stalling out? Then shift down. When I'm cruising around town or on the highway, I aim to keep the engine around 3000 RPM's. And for shifting up, it all depends on how hard I'm accelerating, or how hard I'm pushing; meaning anywhere from 4500 RPM's (leisurely merging onto freeway) all the way up to 7000 RPM's (running down jackass in Camaro who nearly hit me).

In short, don't get hung up on looking at your tacho or thinking about numbers... LISTEN to your engine, and get a feel for it. You'll know the appropriate times to shift.

Double clutching? Just don't. It's a technique that had some benefit back before we started putting syncros in transmissions. So if your daily driver has a carburetor in it, it's worth learning about; but if your car was made sometime after you were born, then there's nothing to learn here.

Also, the way you describe your downshifts IS what heel-toeing is: blipping the throttle while shifting down so as not to upset the drive wheels. It's just that in heel-toeing, you've got your toes on the brake pedal, and are braking while doing it. There's nothing wrong with the way you're downshifting, from how you describe it. Despite what you may have heard or think, you'll do more damage rushing bad shifts and dumping your clutch than you will slowly and gently using it (provided, you know, you're not taking 20 seconds to shift while revving the engine the whole time). Pretty much every race technique book I've read emphasizes that the secret to going fast is to do everything as smooth as possible.

[Flat Black VW]

^^^ basically what he said, the only thing I would add is that what I got from reading your post is that you may simply be tapping the throttle then letting the clutch out, which may not properly be rev matching. You want to make sure you give it enough throttle to match revs to where they would be in that specific gear at the speed you are traveling. For example, if you are shifting from 3>2 at about 35mph, and your vehicle is usually at say 4500 rpm in 2nd gear at 35 mph, then before letting out the clutch you want to make sure the revs are right around 4500 rpm, this will be a smooth shift whereas if done improperly you will feel the car adjust revs as you let out the clutch (BAD).

[Vladror]

I've driven a manual all my life (38 yo) and i didn't realise till now it can be such a mission to get used to. Every car is different so advising on RPMs/Gear/Speed is not really relevant. As tuxedocartman said, listen to your engine. If your calmly cruising on the highway, you can easily put it in 6th and keep the engine below 3000 RPM. However for more 'agitated' driving in traffic or on mountain roads i keep the car in 3rd at 5000 RPMs or so, it all depends. Also, i often skip gears when the circumstances require it, for instance say you're daying 60 in 6th, but want to overtake quickly you can drop it straight to 3rd and then back up to 6th.
It's almost like playing an instrument, you assess the speed you're going at and what you want the car to do, and then you shift gears to get the required 'engine note'. If the note sounds off for what you're doing, you're in the wrong gear (and every car is a different instrument).
i realise this explanation prob doesn't help you practically but it's how i experience shifting, i never look at rev counter or speed.

[Subie]

Does anyone have any tips on completing the 4-5 shift more quickly/smoothly? I find that a lot of the time the RPMs have dropped too low and therefore the shift isn't as smooth. I'm not new to driving stick but I find this car a bit more difficult.

[fiveoneoh]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

In short, don't get hung up on looking at your tacho or thinking about numbers... LISTEN to your engine, and get a feel for it. You'll know the appropriate times to shift.

This x 1000.

I learned on a car that didn't have a tach and now find them distracting. listen and feel to get accustomed to the engine then you can start looking at the tach to fine tune your shifts. that worked for me at least.

[Vladror]

Originally Posted by Flat Black VW

^^^ basically what he said, the only thing I would add is that what I got from reading your post is that you may simply be tapping the throttle then letting the clutch out, which may not properly be rev matching. You want to make sure you give it enough throttle to match revs to where they would be in that specific gear at the speed you are traveling. For example, if you are shifting from 3>2 at about 35mph, and your vehicle is usually at say 4500 rpm in 2nd gear at 35 mph, then before letting out the clutch you want to make sure the revs are right around 4500 rpm, this will be a smooth shift whereas if done improperly you will feel the car adjust revs as you let out the clutch (BAD).

i think that's really only noticeable when you skip a few gears. if you shift one gear at the time and do it fast enough, the RPM differences aren't that big.

[Vladror]

Originally Posted by Subie

Does anyone have any tips on completing the 4-5 shift more quickly/smoothly? I find that a lot of the time the RPMs have dropped too low and therefore the shift isn't as smooth. I'm not new to driving stick but I find this car a bit more difficult.

you're either taking too long to shift or shifting up too early. Remember this is a car that likes to rev, not one where you shift up at 2000 RPM

[encity5]

Originally Posted by Vladror

you're either taking too long to shift or shifting up too early. Remember this is a car that likes to rev, not one where you shift up at 2000 RPM

I think he's asking how to not take so long, and we aren't always racing so there are times you'd want to shift in lower rpms, the economy shift light comes on at around 2k anyway when in 4th

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by frosty86

• heel-to-toe (which I can't do yet because my foot doesn't bend that way..yet)

There are two ways to heel-toe. (1) You literally use your toe on the brake and your heel on the throttle; or (2) You use half your foot for the brake and the other half for the throttle. Try both and see which is comfortable for you.

BTW the highway may not be the best place to practice because of the high speeds and density of cars. Better to practice on empty roads. Just practice slowing the car with your brakes while blipping the throttle before downshifting.

Originally Posted by Subie

Does anyone have any tips on completing the 4-5 shift more quickly/smoothly? I find that a lot of the time the RPMs have dropped too low and therefore the shift isn't as smooth. I'm not new to driving stick but I find this car a bit more difficult.

Yeah I had the exact same problem when I first starting driving this car (and I've driven manual all my life). The revs seem to drop a lot on the 4-5 shift, maybe because of the spacing between the gates. I've learned to speed up my 4-5 shift to compensate. Alternatively you can blip the gas a fraction of a second before releasing the clutch.

[encity5]

Originally Posted by Subie

Does anyone have any tips on completing the 4-5 shift more quickly/smoothly? I find that a lot of the time the RPMs have dropped too low and therefore the shift isn't as smooth. I'm not new to driving stick but I find this car a bit more difficult.

I've tried a few hand positions and sill haven't found the most comfortable,
Ive tried doing it like I would do 2nd to 3rd, gripping the shifer like a water bottle,

I've also tried using my hand twisted so the back of my hand would be facing me and I would just push up to the right, this ways goes pretty smooth and fast for me but gotta get use to the hand position.

An I've also tried it where I really clearly try to do it in a up right then up motion. Move it into neutral push it to the right and rigt bak up, rather than trying to do all of it at once,

These are what I usually try to find a good position

[enjoi23]

Originally Posted by Vladror

I've driven a manual all my life (38 yo) and i didn't realise till now it can be such a mission to get used to. Every car is different so advising on RPMs/Gear/Speed is not really relevant. As tuxedocartman said, listen to your engine. If your calmly cruising on the highway, you can easily put it in 6th and keep the engine below 3000 RPM. However for more 'agitated' driving in traffic or on mountain roads i keep the car in 3rd at 5000 RPMs or so, it all depends. Also, i often skip gears when the circumstances require it, for instance say you're daying 60 in 6th, but want to overtake quickly you can drop it straight to 3rd and then back up to 6th.
It's almost like playing an instrument, you assess the speed you're going at and what you want the car to do, and then you shift gears to get the required 'engine note'. If the note sounds off for what you're doing, you're in the wrong gear (and every car is a different instrument).
i realise this explanation prob doesn't help you practically but it's how i experience shifting, i never look at rev counter or speed.

obviously you have more experience with the manual transmission than me, but I was always taught that switching from 6 to 3rd is dangerous, well that switching gears in general was dangerous. Does it damage the transmission at all or..?

[Vladror]

Originally Posted by encity5

I think he's asking how to not take so long, and we aren't always racing so there are times you'd want to shift in lower rpms, the economy shift light comes on at around 2k anyway when in 4th

switch off the economy light this car just doesn't have enough torque to deal with such low RPMs and you're actually putting unnecessary strain on the engine by driving at such low RPMs and then trying to accelerate