Some Scion Knowledge and History...

[70NYD]

ok me saying that ANY car isnt sexualy orientated is completly wrong
MOST cars arent, but there are a few that are, example the beetle. no not the original but the revamp.. i mean it has a flower inside for fucks sake..
and there are some that look like they are OVERLY compensating for.. something..
but MOST cars arent exactly gender specific (and noone should drive a smart car UNLESS it is the smart roadster with a gsx1300r engine in it )

[Jay Grey]

Ok this isn't about female drivers & what cars fit gender... Move that crap to another thread! This is about whether you care more bout the badge or the car itself. Plus give everyone some knowledge onn the company.

[Kage]

Originally Posted by Jay Grey

Ok this isn't about female drivers & what cars fit gender... Move that crap to another thread! This is about whether you care more bout the badge or the car itself. Plus give everyone some knowledge onn the company.

talking about what cars fit gender is actually somewhat relevant to this thread. Because what this thread is asking is what is more important to the people here. The car or other peoples perceptions of this car/brand. So yeah it's all tied together.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

ok me saying that ANY car isnt sexualy orientated is completly wrong
MOST cars arent, but there are a few that are, example the beetle. no not the original but the revamp.. i mean it has a flower inside for fucks sake.. )

Yeah there are a few cars that are designed with a specific gender in mind. Any cars that come to mind that are designed specifically for men? Please don't say mustang/camaro cuz I sware I see more women with them than men, atleast for the stang. Maybe I live in a weird area or something.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

so transmition isnt sexualy orientated either, i think its just that (no offence) americans are lazy and prefer auto..

I'm not offended, its the gosh darn truth. Americans want to do everything except drive when they're on the road. Pisses me off. We really need a better public transportation system here to help get idiots off the road.

[Maxim]

Scion will probably have a 6 speed manual and a 5-6 speed torque converter automatic. If the auto gets paddle shifters, they'll be like the paddle shifters available on say...the automatic in the Corvette. The car will still shift if you redline it, but if you put it in manual mode it will hold on to gears unless redlined or you press the paddle.

Still, it runs through a torque converter so I'm not interested at all.

Honestly, a little car like this really has no need for launch control, or a dual clutch manual transmission. Needless complexity at this price and performance level.

A synchro-rev match type system, on the other hand, would be wonderful for this type of car, especially if they don't get the pedal placement exactly right.

As for the brand....

I don't mind that it's a Scion. I'd prefer a Toyota due to the brand image but whatever. As long as they don't mess up the interior deco, and as long as they offer a decent sound system (sorry, the ones in Scions now are junk), I'm fine with it. If I purchase this car, money's not really going to matter because I could afford up to 40k...a few extra on insurance doesn't bother me. For me it's really about deciding whether I want to spend that 40k and get something fully baked and ready to go (Mustang Boss for example), or spend 25k and put 15k towards mods.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Scion will probably have a 6 speed manual and a 5-6 speed torque converter automatic. If the auto gets paddle shifters, they'll be like the paddle shifters available on say...the automatic in the Corvette. The car will still shift if you redline it, but if you put it in manual mode it will hold on to gears unless redlined or you press the paddle.

Still, it runs through a torque converter so I'm not interested at all.

Honestly, a little car like this really has no need for launch control, or a dual clutch manual transmission. Needless complexity at this price and performance level.

A synchro-rev match type system, on the other hand, would be wonderful for this type of car, especially if they don't get the pedal placement exactly right.

As for the brand....

I don't mind that it's a Scion. I'd prefer a Toyota due to the brand image but whatever. As long as they don't mess up the interior deco, and as long as they offer a decent sound system (sorry, the ones in Scions now are junk), I'm fine with it. If I purchase this car, money's not really going to matter because I could afford up to 40k...a few extra on insurance doesn't bother me. For me it's really about deciding whether I want to spend that 40k and get something fully baked and ready to go (Mustang Boss for example), or spend 25k and put 15k towards mods.

You're in Germany. You don't have to worry about it being a scion. Lol

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Jay Grey

Ok this isn't about female drivers & what cars fit gender... Move that crap to another thread! This is about whether you care more bout the badge or the car itself. Plus give everyone some knowledge onn the company.

Id like to see that happen :p
Beauty of forums is that shit goes off topic very quickly

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Honestly, a little car like this really has no need for launch control, or a dual clutch manual transmission. Needless complexity at this price and performance level.

:happy0180:

[PAImportTuner]

After a long race weekend, and after much thinking and conversation with other racers, in the potential class this will be thrown into the Scion would be the car to get for me for a number of reasons. TRD offers contingency $$ for Toyota/Scion wins. It will be lighter than the Subaru model and will also be cheaper. For what I'm going to doing with it, Scion seems like the best option eventhough I prefer Subaru. But see last paragraph...

The jabs at men needing to over compensate is complete bullshit and just a cause to stir stuff up on here. If you can't understand how fast and fun a car is with an extra 50hp from stock is, then you really can't comment, unless your trying to provoke a response from someone. I could use more power because I have the ability to use it to it's full potential, some people don't like to downshift to switch lanes or to merge onto highways.

Automatic is needed for sales purposes, as the majority of buyer will not use this for sports but because it's small, cute, peppy and fuel efficient. People are lazy, lazy options for $800-1100 sell like hot cakes.

Launch control really? On a low power n/a car? No comment.

A lot of woman buy the camaro, mustang, it's. Sense of power for them and they actually want to be in control of the roads they drive on. A lot of men buy a miata and drive with the top down without shame. Woman like power and cabin/cargo space for all the shit they buy.

MOST IMPORTANT, one thing I did not take into account is insurance premium, I do not want to be paying for mistakes of 16-25 yr olds make in the Scion for 10 years. So maybe the Subaru would be cheaper as Scion is regarded as a youth car.

[bofa]

Eh we still don't know the lighter/cheaper details for sure... although it's likely. Of course if Subaru somehow can up their HP/torque over the Scion model you might be willing to forgive those differences.

As for the insurance premiums, I wouldn't count on that assumption either. If the prices are within a couple thousand of each other the clientele these two attracts will be the same. If you are depending on the Subie faithful to be the largest buyer of that brand, consider they might have some adjusting to do going from AWD to RWD. Again, all of this is farfetched speculation and couldn't possibly be confirmed for years to come. I'd be surprised if the interest rates are that much different, especially in the first couple of years.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

MOST IMPORTANT, one thing I did not take into account is insurance premium, I do not want to be paying for mistakes of 16-25 yr olds make in the Scion for 10 years. So maybe the Subaru would be cheaper as Scion is regarded as a youth car.

What you can do is figure out the difference in price points of the Scion versus the Subaru. Then figure out the difference in insurance premiums between the two. Over time, if the cost of insurance+ the cost of the scion is greater than the same for the Subaru, get the Subaru.

for an example, lets say you were to buy the car outright without dealing with a loan, and we'll throw out arbitrary insurance rates.

Scion: $23500
Insurance: $110/month

Subaru: $28100
Insurance: $80/month.

Difference in Price: $4600
it would take the Scion's insurance rates 3.5 years to surpass the difference in price between the subaru and the scion.
In 3.5 years- the cost of ownership (purchase price +insurance):
Scion: $28120
Subaru: $31460
Difference: $3340

It would take 12 years and 10 months For the cost of owning the Subaru to be less than owning the Scion using these figures.
Scion: $40440
Subaru: $40420

of course, we won't know the real differences in costs until the cars come out and real figures appear. So, take this with a grain of salt.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

After a long race weekend, and after much thinking and conversation with other racers, in the potential class this will be thrown into the Scion would be the car to get for me for a number of reasons. TRD offers contingency $$ for Toyota/Scion wins. It will be lighter than the Subaru model and will also be cheaper. For what I'm going to doing with it, Scion seems like the best option eventhough I prefer Subaru. But see last paragraph...

The jabs at men needing to over compensate is complete bullshit and just a cause to stir stuff up on here. If you can't understand how fast and fun a car is with an extra 50hp from stock is, then you really can't comment, unless your trying to provoke a response from someone. I could use more power because I have the ability to use it to it's full potential, some people don't like to downshift to switch lanes or to merge onto highways.

Automatic is needed for sales purposes, as the majority of buyer will not use this for sports but because it's small, cute, peppy and fuel efficient. People are lazy, lazy options for $800-1100 sell like hot cakes.

Launch control really? On a low power n/a car? No comment.

A lot of woman buy the camaro, mustang, it's. Sense of power for them and they actually want to be in control of the roads they drive on. A lot of men buy a miata and drive with the top down without shame. Woman like power and cabin/cargo space for all the shit they buy.

MOST IMPORTANT, one thing I did not take into account is insurance premium, I do not want to be paying for mistakes of 16-25 yr olds make in the Scion for 10 years. So maybe the Subaru would be cheaper as Scion is regarded as a youth car.

Originally Posted by Random_Art

What you can do is figure out the difference in price points of the Scion versus the Subaru. Then figure out the difference in insurance premiums between the two. Over time, if the cost of insurance+ the cost of the scion is greater than the same for the Subaru, get the Subaru.

for an example, lets say you were to buy the car outright without dealing with a loan, and we'll throw out arbitrary insurance rates.

Scion: $23500
Insurance: $110/month

Subaru: $28100
Insurance: $80/month.

Difference in Price: $4600
it would take the Scion's insurance rates 3.5 years to surpass the difference in price between the subaru and the scion.
In 3.5 years- the cost of ownership (purchase price +insurance):
Scion: $28120
Subaru: $31460
Difference: $3340

It would take 12 years and 10 months For the cost of owning the Subaru to be less than owning the Scion using these figures.
Scion: $40440
Subaru: $40420

of course, we won't know the real differences in costs until the cars come out and real figures appear. So, take this with a grain of salt.

The other difficulty is that the cars will more likely than not come with different features + the Subaru offering packages (since Scion doesn't do this). So it will be hard to compare apples to apples. Subaru comes with X, Y, Z stock but the Scion doesn't or with the Subaru you can get X,Y, and Z in the package that costs $2200 but you can't in the Scion. Lots of intangibles that will vary from person to person depending on what they like.

[Random_Art]

The package system that most of these companies offer has always been something that irked me. Say I want to get an in dash LCD for the radio, I would also have to get climate control and a sunroof. Or a more realistic example of why various trim levels annoy me, look at the Genesis Coupe. I really like that light green color, but I can't get it in R-Spec trim level and at that level I'm also stuck with leather seats.

[PAImportTuner]

Also let's not forget that the Subaru brand depreciates less. That could be a factor in that 3.5 years you did some calculation for. Then it could possibly be the same when bringing depreciation involved.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Also let's not forget that the Subaru brand depreciates less. That could be a factor in that 3.5 years you did some calculation for. Then it could possibly be the same when bringing depreciation involved.

What is that based on? Looking back at a 2009 tC with 36k vs an Impreza 2.5 with 36k (these are the closest comparison between the two lineups I suppose), based on base models the trade in depreciation is nearly double for the Impreza... this is KBB though, I don't feel like going through the trouble of black book pricing. Should be good for comparison though.