6MT vs Paddle shiftting Auto

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Again Like fatoni mentioned we don't disagree with you but, you shouldnt be so close minded to progress.

Originally Posted by old greg

People who don't like the idea of tiptronic, DSG, or even automated manual transmissions aren't closed minded or technophobic. They just want to be more involved - to have driving fast be a bit of a challenge that rewards a skillful driver.

.

[lsxiong]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Again Like fatoni mentioned we don't disagree with you but, you shouldnt be so close minded to progress. And lol yeah so then every formula 1, team is cheating, every manufactured with dct is cheating. Come on LOL

Ferrari is cheating so is Porsche oh Lexus and Nissan too.

They are all cheating to see who's the best cheater. It would be more competitive and exciting with more possibility of driver errors involved.

Progress is like developing a food pill to satisfy one's hunger. I would rather eat and taste the food... on second thought food pill might be kinda cool and convenient.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by old greg

.

Yeah but by that logic its like saying it doesnt take skills to drive dct. It still take skills otherwise Hamilton has no skills. just because a few small things are taken out doesn't mean you automatically win.

The way you guys talk about it its like any one can win with dct. If that was the case any average Joe can win at f1

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by lsxiong

They are all cheating to see who's the best cheater. It would be more competitive and exciting with more possibility of driver errors involved.

Progress is like developing a food pill to satisfy one's hunger. I would rather eat and taste the food... on second thought food pill might be kinda cool and convenient.

By this logic its simple

If everyone is cheating its no longer cheating. It's become the standards.30 to 40 years maybe even 100
Manual will disappear.

Manual can't handle electric sports cars. Manual can't follow progress. I'm not asking you to change or anything but to recognized that its not cheating. Manual is great but soon it will be gone.

[lsxiong]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Yeah but by that logic its like saying it doesnt take skills to drive dct. It still take skills otherwise Hamilton has no skills. just because a few small things are taken out doesn't mean you automatically win.

The way you guys talk about it its like any one can win with dct. If that was the case any average Joe can win at f1

Not saying anyone can win, but anyone can certainly drive it with almost no practice. This includes males, females, dumb blondes, kids, aliens, the list goes on. Next will be voice recognition instead up paddles. UP... UP... UP... UP... DOWN, DOWN... UP...

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Yeah but by that logic its like saying it doesnt take skills to drive dct. It still take skills otherwise Hamilton has no skills. just because a few small things are taken out doesn't mean you automatically win.

The way you guys talk about it its like any one can win with dct. If that was the case any average Joe can win at f1

Where in anything I've ever posted in this thread have I given you the impression that I give a two poops about what happens on a racetrack?

I'm done. We aren't even talking about the same thing.

[Zaku]

And its factors as such that will sell the car. Keep hating if you like but I want Toyota to make more sports cars I want other manufacturer to make the cars I hope theyll keep manual around for as long as possible.

And lol way to sound immature about things LOL

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Yeah but by that logic its like saying it doesnt take skills to drive dct. It still take skills otherwise Hamilton has no skills. just because a few small things are taken out doesn't mean you automatically win.

The way you guys talk about it its like any one can win with dct. If that was the case any average Joe can win at f1

No no no. The transmission doesn't dictate how great of drivers Hamilton or Schumacher are. They are great drivers because they are great drivers. Put them in a manual transmission "reasonably priced car" and they will still crush the average Joe. I don't think DCT makes Hamilton or Schumacher a "better" driver per-say. But it does make them faster for obvious reasons due to the technology.

Now depending on the kind of paddle shifters Toyota uses it could be faster than a manual or not. But in the end this car is meant for the driver experience. "Being one with the car" feeling a sense of connection and excitement you don't experience in your typical econobox with a slush box. For me an auto takes away the whole experience and excitement that driving a manual gives. Kinda like playing Madden2011 on your 360 + plasma screen tv or going out to play a game of pickup football with your buddies (probably not the best analogy). In the end it is a personal preference, but many who drive a manual will tell you they prefer it for the enjoyment it gives them.

[Cogito8888]

It's a sexual thing there is too much pushing and insertion for it not to be more enjoyable (tongue in cheek)

[Zaku]

Transformer I have respect for you thank you for being reasonable. And about not talking about a racetrack take a look at the topic and poll choice f1 paddles great grabbing manual. These are terms not used in everyday driving. Even dragon made it clear earlier about the thread topic.

Want me to talk about everyday driving ok then say everyone how was your commute in SF,LA,DC,ATL? In a manual, how many people did you rev at ? To practice your scion douchebaggery?how many Honda did you race? How was the canyons?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Zaku

Want me to talk about everyday driving ok then say everyone how was your commute in SF,LA,DC,ATL? In a manual, how many people did you rev at ? To practice your scion douchebaggery?how many Honda did you race? How was the canyons?

I agree that for some who might have +60-90min commutes in bad traffic, an auto with shift paddles might be a better option. Also for those who have not learned to drive stick, don't want to learn how to drive stick or someone who needs to share the car with someone who doesn't want to learn to drive a stick. There will be those people and that is ok. I'm sure the car will still be fun to drive. From my experience I use to live in Chicago and had to commute every day in the traffic with a manual. I didn't have any personal problems with it. It was second nature. Put in first go 5-10mph put in neutral coast to a stop. Repeat over and over. I thought the enjoyment of a manual far exceeded what an auto would give me even in traffic. But in the end it is a personal preference. Both will still move the car in the end.

[Zaku]

lol Yeah exactly and don't get the wrong idea, either the FR-S will be my 4th car if I make the purchase and I've never owned a Automatic car before either.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Zaku

By this logic its simple

If everyone is cheating its no longer cheating. It's become the standards.30 to 40 years maybe even 100
Manual will disappear.

Manual can't handle electric sports cars. Manual can't follow progress. I'm not asking you to change or anything but to recognized that its not cheating. Manual is great but soon it will be gone.

1. It's still cheating, even if everybody "has" to cheat to win. F1 aren't really cars like the ones we drive on the street, they're more like go-karts. And most go-karts are single speed carts with torque converters, and then there are shift carts that have a multi-speed sequential gearbox. That is just the way they developed.

2. That's just not true, it's that no one builds two speed gearboxes for that level of torque output. Factory EVs use big AC motors and have a flat enough torque curve that they don't need more than one maybe two forward gears. There are one speed gearboxes that can handle the torque, but there isn't a two speed gearbox available. EVs don't need a clutch or torque converter either BTW.

[racinstylez]

I just want to make sure people know the difference between a regular automatic transmission with paddles versus a true F1 sequential transmssion.

Originally Posted by wiki

A sequential manual transmission (or sequential manual gearbox) is a type of manual transmission used on motorcycles and high-performance cars for auto racing, where gears are selected in order, and direct access to specific gears is not possible.
With traditional manual transmissions, the driver can move from gear to gear, by moving the shifter to the appropriate position. This type of transmission is often referred to as a H-pattern because of the path that the shift lever takes as it selects the various gears. A clutch must be disengaged before the new gear is selected, to disengage the running engine from the transmission, thus stopping all torque transfer. In auto racing, this process is slow and prone to human error; hence the development of the sequential transmission. A true sequential transmission will very often use dog clutch engagement rather than the more usual syncromesh as fitted to a normal H-pattern road car gearbox. Engagement using dogs only requires a very brief interruption of engine torque to complete a shift into any adjacent gear. This allows shifting between gears without the use of the clutch. The clutch would normally be used only for standing starts.

The Scion transmission will be a standard syncromesh transmission. Nothing like that of an F1 car or Ferrari/Maserati/LFA/Bugatti. They have a F1 dry sump or wet sump clutch engagement. There is an electronic F1 pump that engages and disengages the clutch when flipping through the gears. (Very expensive to maintain) The difference is that a true paddle shift car uses a CLUTCH while cars like Lexus, BMW, Audi, etc with paddles uses a TORQUE CONVERTER just like a standard automatic transmission.