Difficult to heel toe

[sho220]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the whole point of the technique is to corner smoothly. you can argue semantics all you want, its purpose is to get on the gas smoothly

I'm confused...is it to corner smoothly? Or get on the gas smoothly?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by sho220

YEAH! BRAKING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRAKING!!!

its like saying you set your alarm clock at night to go to sleep because thats when you do it. id like to think i set my alarm to wake up

Originally Posted by sho220

I'm confused...is it to corner smoothly? Or get on the gas smoothly?

i try to accelerate out of corners so they are happening at the same time. if you dont then yeah im wrong.

[ill86]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i understand the concept. you dont have to explain to me what is going on... ...you can argue semantics all you want, its purpose is to get on the gas smoothly

Dude, you are the one who said it has nothing to do with braking...
For god sake's man.. your foot is on the brake pedal.. how can it have nothing to do with braking?


Yes, it MAY lead to accelerating, and it may not. That's what I'm trying to get you to agree upon.. You do it while REDUCING VEHICLE SPEED.. and your foot is moderating BRAKING and blipping of the accelerator..


h/t is for braking and downshifting at the same time...

braking and downshifting at the same time.. What you do after that has nothing to do with the mechanics involved in h/t.

They call it "rev matching" when you don't touch the brake pedal.

I'm done.. have a good one..

Heel-and-toe[1] is a driving technique used mostly in performance driving,[2] although some drivers use it on the road in everyday conditions in the interest of effectiveness. It involves operating the throttle and brake pedals simultaneously with the right foot, while facilitating normal activation of the clutch with the left foot. It is used when braking and downshifting simultaneously (prior to entering a turn), and allows the driver to "blip" the throttle to raise the engine speed and smoothly engage the lower gear.

[sho220]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its like saying you set your alarm clock at night to go to sleep because thats when you do it. id like to think i set my alarm to wake up


i try to accelerate out of corners so they are happening at the same time. if you dont then yeah im wrong.

I set my alarm clock in preparation for waking up in the morning...like I heal/toe downshift in preparation for accelerating out of a corner...or something like that...

[karma003]

Originally Posted by sho220

Agree 100%...I just like reading fatoni's dopey replies. Please don't squash this thread...it's amusing...

And I completely disagree!!! IT'S FOR ACCELERATING!!! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BRAKING!!! OR FOR BREAKING EITHER!!!

I love a good debate, but this is beyond that to be honest. Idk how ignorant u have to be to believe this isn't a braking technique. U use the brake while performing it, its for DECELERATION, u use engine braking as well as ur foot brake, & it also really helps to maintain position. Try releasing the clutch while downshifting w out heel & toe, ur tail will swing out. It has nothing to do w hp cuz that is referring to power, which this requires the opposite. Ur slowing down not speeding up. Idk what to say anymore, or u still can't comprehend the use of heel toe & r still stuck w ur belief, then id hate to see how u race.

[hotaka]

Originally Posted by ill86

There isn't enough torque to upset the car??
Really? Go into a turn (don't worry about braking for now..).. pay no attention to where your revs are at when you downshift and just let the clutch out without matching engine speed. You wouldn't do that.. Why? Becuause it's going to jerk like hell.. It could also upset the weight transfer forward thus lightening your rear.. So, you "rev match" and use your right foot on the accelerator and your left on the clutch. Therefore being able to match engine speed for the lower gear.

right. that's why clutch kicks can be used to initiate drifting. I'm really unsure why there's so much debate here.....

[hotaka]

Originally Posted by karma003

I love a good debate, but this is beyond that to be honest. Idk how ignorant u have to be to believe this isn't a braking technique. U use the brake while performing it, its for DECELERATION, u use engine braking as well as ur foot brake, & it also really helps to maintain position. Try releasing the clutch while downshifting w out heel & toe, ur tail will swing out. It has nothing to do w hp cuz that is referring to power, which this requires the opposite. Ur slowing down not speeding up. Idk what to say anymore, or u still can't comprehend the use of heel toe & r still stuck w ur belief, then id hate to see how u race.

Ok. This acceleration/deceleration thing is ridiculous. It's not for accelerating. It's not for decelerating. It's for shifting.

[hotaka]

Originally Posted by sho220

I'm confused...is it to corner smoothly? Or get on the gas smoothly?

you should just try it. try to go through a corner as fast as possible without heel-toe. enter a corner at a high speed, brake, but don't heel toe or rev match and downshift like most of the population do.

You'll find yourself in a very awkward position. you're steering sharp, you feel the lateral G's, and yet you have to let go of the clutch very slowly

Even if its a corner that doesn't require acceleration for quite a while, its frikkin awkward

[Hawaiian]

Originally Posted by ill86

Dude, you are the one who said it has nothing to do with braking...
For god sake's man.. your foot is on the brake pedal.. how can it have nothing to do with braking?


Yes, it MAY lead to accelerating, and it may not. That's what I'm trying to get you to agree upon.. You do it while REDUCING VEHICLE SPEED.. and your foot is moderating BRAKING and blipping of the accelerator..


h/t is for braking and downshifting at the same time...

braking and downshifting at the same time.. What you do after that has nothing to do with the mechanics involved in h/t.

They call it "rev matching" when you don't touch the brake pedal.

I'm done.. have a good one..

Nowhere in your quote does it call this a braking technique, it just refers to it as an advanced driving technique. If you try to "burn" someone by citing a source, at least use a source that properly supports your argument.

[Slartibartfast]

Man... I came into this late. Very entertaining. As Hawiian just stated, and ill86 has implied, this is a driving technique. It's not FOR braking, it's not FOR cornering, it's not FOR acceleration. It's for having the car settled, and perpared for all three.
I do it on the streets all the time just for practice and muscle memory. Their is no real benefit. On the back roads I do it for fun, and it can be nessesary in many circumstances. On the track... it is a must for later braking, and being in the correct gear when cornering and exiting the corner.

On my drive home from work there is a long straight where I get up to about 160-170ish (never any cops around on this road, and lots of visability of other cars, of which their rarely are) at the end of the straight is a 90 degree 2nd gear corner. It is an absolute joy heel-toeing from 6th to 2nd, threashold breaking as late as I can, and entering the corner perfectly setup. I love it.

[robo_robb]

From what I'm reading, it seems like some of us are blipping the throttle with the right half of our foot?

This can be dangerous-- and because of pedal spacing on this car it's more difficult. You want stable pressure on the brake, with the whole pedal being pressed, not just half of it. You don't want any risk of your foot slipping.



If you use proper technique, heel-toeing in this car is very easy. You just have to get used to rotating your foot. Toes should have complete coverage on brake while your foot rotates counter-clockwise and the heel blips the throttle.

[Texas BRZ]

^ I agree with your specific explanation, and I'm continuing to practice this exact technique within this car... It has been working out more positively, and also has been more assuring to me.

[Slartibartfast]

I toe-toe myself, I have always known that actual heel-toe is suposed to be more "correct", but... I watched a video of Ayrton Senna a few months back and was pleased to see that he did it the same as me! If it was good for Senna, it's good for me!

I will have my new pedals here this week. They will eliminate any issue with not being fully planted of the brake.

[ill86]

Originally Posted by Hawaiian

Nowhere in your quote does it call this a braking technique, it just refers to it as an advanced driving technique. If you try to "burn" someone by citing a source, at least use a source that properly supports your argument.

Go back and read what i sited. Notice how it uses the word "braking".. That's why i posted it. It also refers to people using on the street for effectiveness...

I'm not trying to "burn" anyone... Nice try though. My argument was meant to inspire him to reconsider his words. "nothing to do with braking"

I teach h/t in the BRAKE zones on our track. Therefore I, myself, teach it with braking techniques.

The following quotes are the reason why i replied in the first place. I'm a professional instructor and driver. Been doing this for a little bit (11 years).. I don't mind a good debate but my intention is to educate , not to "burn" someone.

Originally Posted by fatoni

with 200 hp its not really necessary on a race track either

Originally Posted by fatoni

i fail to see how "for accelerating" doesnt encompass "preparation for accelerating." the only reason you do that is to not upset the cars balance by the increased tq in a lower gear. with cars like this, there usually isnt enough tq to upset the car.