How mad would you be?

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

I totally agree. What I think happened was that Toyota got tired of reading about how boring and mundane their cars were and it became almost a necessity for them to create something sporty to keep interest in their company.

uh... that's exactly what it was. Toyoda-san never denied this from the beginning, in fact he said it straight up. He wanted to do away with the image of Toyota having nothing but boring cars and wanted to take Toyota back to what it was, when it made interesting and fun to drive cars.

[Tanuki]

Do you guys realize that without the heritage there is no inspiration, and this car never exists?

[eriktherod]

I also agree on the boring car decade. Some people blame the automotive crisis, cash for clunkers, going green movement, emissions and higher safety regulations for the resulting cars.

However, cars like the FR-S prove that it's not necessarily true (or at least doesn't have to be). You can get good mileage, great safety in its class, performance, comfort, and looks for a very reasonable price. People are also willing to buy it, as seen.

It'd be unfair to point fingers at only Toyota. Honda stopped the NSX, then the RSX, and now the S2000. Hell, even the K24 Si is pretty lame and annoying for tuners. Nissan has an okay lineup but I feel like they're all so bloated and overweight. Mazda is doing okay with SkyActive, but their performance oriented cars are sort of stagnating in terms of performance and mileage. American muscle remains heavy as ever and trying to brute force with displacement. Ford has made some good strides, and I don't even pay attention to Dodge/Chrysler because I find them to be garbage. Hyundai has the GC, and that's really about it on the playing field.

Of course, the new NSX is coming and there's always the GT-R and ZR1 but those are pretty much out of reach for most people. Even the vettes are creeping up on 50k for base models. :/

Now that I think about it, it's pretty interesting to think if Toyota made a PERFORMANCE vehicle for that price.. what could they do for an economy vehicle. An affordable Camry with D4S tech using a 2.4 boxer could be interesting.

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by eriktherod

I think it's funny that you would say "engineered" by Subaru when everyone here knows Subaru would never make a RWD NA sports car nowadays. This was Toyota's project from the start and they enlisted Subaru's engineers only AFTER they were able to make a test car and prove it had potential.

I'm fairly sure that Toyota set the constraints, Tada-san knew what he wanted to achieve with it. Subaru just had parts that could prove useful (Boxer, suspension, etc). The transmission is a Toyota-designed Aisin, not a Subby one. The Boxer, while Subaru's, uses Toyota's direct injection tech (that they were even somewhat hesitant to share).

Take the iPad, which Apple designs and engineers from scratch. Sharp and LG may make the LCDs, Samsung may make the CPU/GPU/Flash memory. Other outside companies make the aluminum housing, chipsets, and necessary components. That doesn't mean it's their product, Apple is the one who says what goes into the device and oversees it from start to finish. It's Apple's product.

That's how I feel about the 86, it's Toyota's baby. They had the vision and the engineering. Subaru co-developed it using a lot of parts that were a good fit for the platform. Not to say Subaru isn't a good partner, but it's silly for anyone to say it was their idea or their car because it has a bunch of SUBARU stamps on it. I highly doubt they designed the chassis, even if it has their mfg stamp on it.

That all being said, I personally dislike marquee brands. That's like an author writing one successful series as his real name, then using a pseudonym for a completely different series. Why? Marketing? That's dumb in my opinion. That and yes the heritage, which some people are calling BS on. I don't care if you don't buy into the AE86 heritage, this is the heritage of a lightweight fun RWD sports car. Some people say they can see it as the AE86, some people say it's the MR2, others say it's the mini LF-A. Either way, it IS a lightweight RWD sports car and I think Toyota should be proud of it as their brand, not the "cool, hip in the US brand."

Toyota seeked Subaru b/c of FHI. Ask a Subaru exec and they'll tell you the direct opposite; that this was their idea since it's their engine, their chassis and their testing.

Because of Subaru's hand in the manufacturing game, I do believe this is why owners are having the issues reported here.

I have accepted the fact that it's a Scion here in the US instead of Toyota but now my problem has shifted to the issues that are being reported. I knew there would be some 1st year production issues but didn't expect to see this many. It's pretty sad b/c this is definitely not a Toyota trait.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

Do you guys realize that without the heritage there is no inspiration, and this car never exists?

Meh. They could have built this car today whether or not they accidentally built a fun version of the Corolla 30 years ago.

It's a matter of fact, Subaru is building them and they never participated in any of Toyota's motoring heritage.

-Justin

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Meh. They could have built this car today whether or not they accidentally built a fun version of the Corolla 30 years ago.

It's a matter of fact, Subaru is building them and they never participated in any of Toyota's motoring heritage.

-Justin

They built this car because of the demand for it that came from the previous and current generation of corolla owners. Subaru wasn't even a part of this project from day one. There has been a lot of R&D that involved the owners of the AE86 asking for their input as the car was designed. This car owes everything to the AE86. You cannot overlook that.

[Shagaliscious]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

They built this car because of the demand for it that came from the previous and current generation of corolla owners. Subaru wasn't even a part of this project from day one. There has been a lot of R&D that involved the owners of the AE86 asking for their input as the car was designed. This car owes everything to the AE86. You cannot overlook that.

Agreed. They also brought in a 2000GT when designing the FR-S/BRZ for inspiration.

[MidnightMonkey]

I see so many pointless arguments made on this (my very first, BTW) forum, it kinda makes me regret joining. To a degree, mind you. It's still a very excellent resource for parts/ maintenance information and product feedback. It's just... all this yammering kinda makes me want to throw a Daihatsu emblem on my car and instantly become your collective poster boy.

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

Agreed. They also brought in a 2000GT when designing the FR-S/BRZ for inspiration.

You can definitely see the 2000gt inspiration in the fender arch tops and the rear corner windows.

[SWAMechFRS]

Originally Posted by eriktherod

I just dislike the uneducated groups of people (typically teenagers) that are all about "fast and the furious", "NOS", "tokyo drifting" and all that without any understanding of how cars actually work and drive.

Hit the nail on the head dude. There are some really stupid people out there driving this car. Pretty much anyone who "mods" this car beyond a little suspension help and wheels/tires for grip doesn't have a clue about what is in their driveway.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

Do you read much?

Go ahead and try to prove this is a toyota, good luck.

Make sure you dont look at any of the parts on the car.

[nujee86]

ok enough of this. Can someone please educate this ignorant aussie. The first time i heard of scion is when the FRS came out. We have it as a Toyota in our backyard.

My question here is, what up with the scion brand. Is it poorly perceived in the states? Is toyota perceived better/sportier than scion? can anyone shed some light on this for me please.

[Trojan_SC]

On that note that the FR-S saved Scion, it's actually true. It's already been announced that the xB and xD will be dropped after 2012. So they needed more than a 2-car lineup with the tC and iQ(which is also a Toyota everywhere else btw)

[mashal]

Originally Posted by sho220

Where are you seeing all the Toyota badges on FR-S's?

+1 , besides the Toyota on the engine please show me another spot that has Toyota on it . I'll win my 10$ back from my bud.
My bud who is a Subaru fan went around my car to look for another Toyota badge and didn't find one. And I lost 10$.
Conclusion: we all bought subarus