How mad would you be?

[kendalldwhite]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Will the Toyota badge make it faster? Will it make it quieter or louder? Will the Toyota badge lower the lap time, increase the fuel mileage or give you more trunk space? Will the Toyota badge make your manhood larger, make you more appealing to women or increase your salary?

The answer is no.

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

At the end of the day, it's the same damn car; Scion, Toyota or Subaru.

rice_classic does not care, he bought the car not the company nor the name.

Im keeping it scion! I dont see the point of switching, waste of money for badges

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Please do, I really, really, want to see the Toyota version with all the options from the Toyota GT 86 Limited. It's the main reason I made the conversion list in my sig.
I've been very, very disappointed at the fact the car was released in a reduced form through Scion. I have nothing against the people who like Scion, but as a long standing Toyota fan I look at Scion and how they do things and I just don't like it.

Toyota, to me, has always been about quality and being fun to drive. I sit in a Scion and I see a Toyota with it's quality stripped away... therefore no longer a Toyota. In my eyes.

I've compared the Scion FR-S to my 2003 Toyota Celica GT-S TRD, a 10 year old car, and my Celica had better options and doesn't look as cheap as the FR-S does. Yes they both have plastic interiors for the knobs and controls, but the Celica at least had some style to them instead of big, blocky, generic parts bin, looks to them. The Toyota has the fantastic looking toggle switches and digital controls. The Celica had optional leather seats, colour keyed interior (heard this was Canada only, but it exists and I have it), optional HIDs, fog lights, illuminated entry, and even though it was a lift-back I'm sure it would have had a trunk liner if it did have a trunk. They both make 100 hp/L, they're both light weight (the Celica was ~200lbs. lighter), have similar power to weight ratios, and both handle well. I simply expected more of a Toyota vehicle 10 years later. Scion makes me think they've taken a step backwards, but when I researched the Toyota GT 86 Limited in Japan, that was a car that met my expectations.

The 86 name being stripped from the car and changing to Scion felt, to me, as if the legacy the car came from and heralded had been taken away. Yes they kept one 86 badge, but they removed all others. Honestly feels like a slap to the face of the legacy it came from. Not to mention Akio Toyoda-san, president and CEO of TMC, gave his word that a Toyota sports car would be built and sold, after seven years of not having one. He even apologized for the lost dreams of a generation. After making a statement like that, then not following through... it's heart breaking to me that it wasn't released here as a Toyota and I won't buy the Scion or Subaru versions, only the Toyota.

I would be simply ecstatic and first in line to buy the Toyota version.

I'm quite sure the main reason it was brought over as a Scion was to keep the price down. All of those options that the GT86 has are far from cheap and would only further increase the price of the car, which was something people were complaining about well before pricing was ever announced. It would be horrible business for Toyota to price this car in the 30k range considering what it would be competing with for that price. There is also lower models in Japan too so it's not like all GT86's come with HID's or cool interior trims. What we get is essentially the in between model between the Gt/Gt Limited and the G models.
Here is a direct english translated link to the differences between the models. Keep in mind that if you did a yen conversion, the car we get is still substantially cheaper even than their stripped down model.
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...4kwB-OfHdZjBHg

http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/e...oto/index.html

[sho220]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

Please do, I really, really, want to see the Toyota version with all the options from the Toyota GT 86 Limited. It's the main reason I made the conversion list in my sig.

As long as there's a fairly stripped down version available, I don't care what badge is on it. Not everyone wants leather seats, HID's, climate control and all that other unnecessary stuff. If they start trying to upscale this thing they better do it right or they're gonna shoot themselves in the foot...

[Tanuki]

There is not a leather seat available from Toyota/Subaru/Scion. What leather seats does everyone keep bringing up?

[Nevermore]

Originally Posted by ST185RC

A few years ago, Hyundai was making shit cars before the Genesis, now it's being hailed as a major competitor against G37, 370z, mustangs etc. Now everyone is going apeshit on how good Hyundai is and how far they've come in terms of luxury and styling. Isn't that a surprise from the Hyundai Accents and Tibbies. Some even called Hyundai the Toyota killers. O Rly?? Like Really Rly?

My dad, who works for Toyota, has said before that Hyundai is getting good and becoming decent competition for Toyota. He'll even admit Honda has nice cars and Ford makes nice trucks. He'll still tell you to buy a Toyota though, of course.

As for the topic, I actually kind of like it as a Scion. I agree it doesn't fit the current Toyota line-up, I still would've tried to get it regardless if it had come as a Toyota, though. My concern would've been price if it had started as the GT86, because the FR-S is at the top of my budget, so I'm glad it came that way. In the future, who knows. Maybe by the time Toyota and BMW finish their joint car I'll be able to afford it, and if it's a better car than the FR-S, I might get it. But for now, I'll drive my Scino happily. (If I ever recieve it, that is.)

[RRnold]

If this meant that they would shift production from the Subaru plant to Toyota then I would literally do a backflip!

I just have partial disgust for Subaru's production quality.

[Trojan_SC]

So many threads on this same topic lmao. Get over that shit geez. If people want to rebadge it, so be it. I did. I personally don't like the "Scion" brand but it's just that, a brand. But it's my personal preference, maybe not yours and if it isn't, oh well, don't really give a shit. If it came out a damn Lexus I still would've rebadged it because I feel it should've came a Toyota regardless. For those saying "why didn't you get a Subaru?" umm because I don't like it. Except for floor mats, I'm completely rebadged. Does it fool people? I don't know, don't really care. You guys say "everyone knows it's a Scion". You guys may, enthusiasts may, but most people? No sadly most people are stupid and don't even know that Lexus or Scion are a Marque of Toyota or that both the BRZ and FR-S are the same car.

Anyway. Rebadge it or not. BRZ, FR-S, 86, or GT-86. Same fucking car. Enjoy your cars. I damn sure am. With its Toyota badging and all

[Trojan_SC]

Originally Posted by RRnold

I just have partial disgust for Subaru's production quality.

I've noticed you do...lol :P

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

I'm quite sure the main reason it was brought over as a Scion was to keep the price down. All of those options that the GT86 has are far from cheap and would only further increase the price of the car, which was something people were complaining about well before pricing was ever announced. It would be horrible business for Toyota to price this car in the 30k range considering what it would be competing with for that price. There is also lower models in Japan too so it's not like all GT86's come with HID's or cool interior trims. What we get is essentially the in between model between the Gt/Gt Limited and the G models.
Here is a direct english translated link to the differences between the models. Keep in mind that if you did a yen conversion, the car we get is still substantially cheaper even than their stripped down model.
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...4kwB-OfHdZjBHg

http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/e...oto/index.html

Making specialized parts (Scion badges, FR-S floor mats, Scion branded airbags, etc.) for a single market area is what drives up costs. Everything is made at the same plant, so if they stuck with Toyota from the beginning they wouldn't have had to make the Scion specific items and setup a 3rd production line for those parts, for a single market area. That 3rd line is extra dies, stamps, whatever that cost more for production. Thus increasing customer side costs.

The beauty of options are that they're optional. You don't have to get them if you don't want them. Yes the upper end price with the options would be higher, as expected - you get what you pay for, the base would still be the base. In the case of the Toyota it would likely have been cheaper for the base than the Scion, I'll explain in a second.

As you pointed out, and I already knew, there are lower trims as well. The Scion is essentially a G 86 with most of the options. That version, over here, would be cheaper than the Scion currently available as it doesn't have options at base such as the sport pedals, white tach, 16" wheels instead of the 17", etc.

You cannot do a direct yen conversion from Toyota.jp, it does not work that way. Cars in Japan generally cost more than they do in North America due to many variables and fees, etc. That same car, although directly converted from yen appears to cost more, it would in fact, be cheaper here.

Originally Posted by sho220

As long as there's a fairly stripped down version available, I don't care what badge is on it. Not everyone wants leather seats, HID's, climate control and all that other unnecessary stuff. If they start trying to upscale this thing they better do it right or they're gonna shoot themselves in the foot...

Toyota offers the completely stripped down version, the RC 86: http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/grade/grade4/index.html

The Scion, as I said before, is essentially a G 86 with options: http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/grade/grade3/index.html

Not everyone wants to be locked into a lower trim level either, some of use want the higher stuff. Again, the higher stuff is OPTIONAL. Meaning you do not have to get it if you do not want to. Come on people, car companies have been using trims levels and options for decades, this isn't new.

[Sigh-on-Rice]

Originally Posted by Tanuki

There is not a leather seat available from Toyota/Subaru/Scion. What leather seats does everyone keep bringing up?

I believe it's the Alcantara leather seats. The kind you see on a F1 car, and Subaru STi.

[Justin.b]

Screw trim levels.

Unlike a lot of places around the world, Americans generally buy cars from dealer inventory. If I had to rely on what the dealer ordered, I'd have ended up paying $32k for a GT-86 with HIDs, Nav, backup cameras, heater leather seats and whatever other useless crap I don't want.

The radio is a standard size and isn't integrated into the vehicle's other systems, so it's quite easy and cheap to add more video/nav features if desired. It's also pretty easy to add seat heaters, leather and HIDs.

It's better to have a less expensive car and then add the options a-la-carte in the aftermarket than to have an over-equipped car and try to work backwards.

Scion sells it as a sports car. We're all free to add luxury features if we desire.

-Justin

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Screw trim levels.

Unlike a lot of places around the world, Americans generally buy cars from dealer inventory. If I had to rely on what the dealer ordered, I'd have ended up paying $32k for a GT-86 with HIDs, Nav, backup cameras, heater leather seats and whatever other useless crap I don't want.

The radio is a standard size and isn't integrated into the vehicle's other systems, so it's quite easy and cheap to add more video/nav features if desired. It's also pretty easy to add seat heaters, leather and HIDs.

It's better to have a less expensive car and then add the options a-la-carte in the aftermarket than to have an over-equipped car and try to work backwards.

Scion sells it as a sports car. We're all free to add luxury features if we desire.

-Justin

So due to your own impatience and lack of willpower, you think trim levels and options are bad? You know you can request the dealer to remove the dealer installed options, right? Set your instant gratification aside and order the car you want instead of taking what they have on the lot because it's there. The only fault here lies with you.

No we are not free to add the features if we desire. I've gone to my dealer and requested the GT 86 Limited parts, they have refused and say it is not possible for them to order them in. This is why it's better to have the options as you can still choose to get them. The way Scion does it, you cannot.

Yes, I could order the parts on my own from a 3rd party, but then I have to pay the 3rd party as well and then install everything. I'd rather get it all from factory/dealer and cut out the other middle man and save some money.

[empower-auto]

These cars are selling fast around here. Not sure why Toyota would change anything..

[Justin.b]

It really sounds like your only option to move to Japan.

Be sure to tell them how to keep it real on a JDM level.

-Justin