I finally drove a 2nd gen BRZ

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Would you mind to help me understand what must be done for the swap? is it possibile to swap just the short block and maybe intake manifold, and reuse FA20 heads and everything else?

I can’t find the post but the FA24 heads are a bit different on the intake side and make more top end. There is a dyno and it pulls farther and better up top.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Would you mind to help me understand what must be done for the swap? is it possibile to swap just the short block and maybe intake manifold, and reuse FA20 heads and everything else?

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Best bet is to source a complete FA24. There are folks that have done a 20/24 hybrid but it sounds like a pita for only small gains. Here's my saga for my swap.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154841

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I can’t find the post but the FA24 heads are a bit different on the intake side and make more top end. There is a dyno and it pulls farther and better up top.

As the others have said above, swapping a complete FA24 is the far simpler and better-performing solution from everything we've seen so far.

One further example: I remember there was one shop that compared the FA20 (red aluminum) intake manifold setup vs. the FA24 setup on an FA24, and it was a sizable difference in top-end performance.

[tomm.brz]

yes i saw too that intake manifold is crucial
it's expensive a long block... how much do you pay over there for it?

[blsfrs]

It's strange to me that putting the red intake on the FA24 bumps up the power but putting it on an older FA20 make no apparent difference.

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

yes i saw too that intake manifold is crucial
it's expensive a long block... how much do you pay over there for it?

With most (if not all?) of the FA24 swaps I've seen here, folks are buying used complete motors from wrecked 2nd gen GR86/BRZ's, not new long blocks. Average prices I saw last time I looked were around $7000 USD.

Originally Posted by blsfrs

It's strange to me that putting the red intake on the FA24 bumps up the power but putting it on an older FA20 make no apparent difference.

It was actually the opposite from that one shop's experiment - the FA24 intake manifold assembly had a strong top end advantage over the FA20 red manifold on the FA24, and there was relatively little difference in mid-range torque (which you might otherwise expect as a tradeoff for higher peak flow).

That suggests that the FA24 manifold both had higher peak flow and more optimized resonance tuning (via length, plenum size or some other combination of factors) for all-around performance on the FA24...which you would, of course, expect given that it's the setup that was engineered by Subaru to work with the engine.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

It's strange to me that putting the red intake on the FA24 bumps up the power but putting it on an older FA20 make no apparent difference.

yeah it s not the red manifold that make big power on the fa24, but its oem manifold
the red manifold doesn't even bring gains on 1st gen basically

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

With most (if not all?) of the FA24 swaps I've seen here, folks are buying used complete motors from wrecked 2nd gen GR86/BRZ's, not new long blocks. Average prices I saw last time I looked were around $7000 USD.

eh... will be tough to find a long block here
i saw just one ad about a full long block even with transmission from Poland but it looked scammy for the price and had no way to be sure of it

Brand new fa24 short block price is quite affordable like fa20 short block, that 's why I asked if it's easily doable using the old heads and everything

[ZDan]

Power bump in ‘17 was from header with larger primaries, not the super-bitchin red intake which was 100% the reason I bought new in 2017!
Anyway, I have the factory header and overpipe from that car if anyone’s interested…

[ruturaj001]

New engine assembly is little over 7k includes clutch as well

https://900brz.com/posts/engine-replacements

[Dirty Harry]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Power bump in ‘17 was from header with larger primaries, not the super-bitchin red intake which was 100% the reason I bought new in 2017!
Anyway, I have the factory header and overpipe from that car if anyone’s interested…

Just curious, do you still have your ND Miata (MX5)? How do you think that compares to your BRZ?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dirty Harry

Just curious, do you still have your ND Miata (MX5)? How do you think that compares to your BRZ?

Yeah, just got polyurethane suspension bushings for it, see if that brings desired lap times. Even with Xida race coilovers, the ND with factory bushings has noticeable lateral squirminess in the corners. Can't turn it in as aggressively, and any mid-corner bumps/undulations result in some wiggling around. Hopefuly poly pushings fixes...

The ND2 has similar power/weight as the old '17 BRZ, and hits similar speeds at the track (120mph at the Glen). 2nd gen BRZ is much faster of course.

What I do love about the ND2 is it is a properly small and lightweight *sports* car. The BRZ feels kinda like a station wagon in comparison!

[ssamjangjustin]

More I look at the 2nd gen BRZ as of now, I get the feeling that Subaru will announce a facelifted version with all the interior bits and pieces that my 19' Limited BRZ w/ Performance Package has.
Believe it or not, I was so close to trade in my 1st gen BRZ as well.
Ultimately, what stopped me from trading in my 106k mileage 1st gen to 2nd gen tS was the steering feel and the lack of knee pads.
This made me realize that there are a bit more for the 2nd gen to be updated, not to mention red aluminum headers that my car got over the pre-17' version of the 1st gen (also a bit supposed power due to this).
I do love the 2nd gen BRZ, but I can wait it out a few more years to see the final version of it. Instead, I am throwing the down payment money to put mods in my car right now and the experiences I am gaining are well worth it + loving my car even more.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by ssamjangjustin

More I look at the 2nd gen BRZ as of now, I get the feeling that Subaru will announce a facelifted version with all the interior bits and pieces that my 19' Limited BRZ w/ Performance Package has.

FWIW I think the BRZ/86 is close to the end of its run. They may not be around for much longer.

There have been stories about Toyota reintroducing a Celica and MR2, both designed and manufactured solely by Toyota. If they happen - which it seems very likely - Toyota probably won't continue the BRZ/86 collaboration with Subaru.

Toyota was testing the waters for sports cars with the BRZ and Supra. As big as the company is, they didn't want to make the investment on their own. Instead they bought into a couple of sports cars by investing in Subaru to make the BRZ and then sell their own branded version as the 86, and a re-badged BMW Z4 as the Supra.

While sales of both cars have been modest by Toyota standards, they seem to have been enough to reassure them to go it alone. The discontinuation of the Supra has been announced. I wouldn't be surprised if the BRZ/86 were soon to follow. It's doubtful Subaru would be able to invest the money on its own to continue solely with the BRZ, especially considering the parts and know-how that came from Toyota.

Which means I'm going to take even more fastidious care of my BRZ. It's likely the last of its kind. A forever car for me.

[ssamjangjustin]

My thoughts align with you.


But while everyone else is announcing big names and hype building, Subaru has been surprisingly tight lipped about... well...


As much pain Subaru caused for the WRX owners in past 3 years, I think we can rest a bit easy.


The 2nd gen has been only out for 3 years so far and it sells far better than the WRX. I sincerely hope, and believe that at least there will be a one major facelift before letting the BRZ go from the lineup.
I mean... the first gen was offered for 7 years and Subaru definitely milked the $#@! out of it.


I believe that the ZN6 platform was the true last analogue sports car (my brother who's a ND3 Miata owner begs to differ), before all the safety techs and stuff became mandatory.
Perhaps the 2nd gen might end right before something else becomes mandatory (good Lord, don't let that be subscription based services BS) and be fondly remembered.