I finally drove a 2nd gen BRZ

[AnalogMan]

Ever since the second generation BRZ came out I've been toying with the idea of trading in my beloved 2019 for one. I've been tempted by all the glowing reviews, owner's comments, and the proverbial 'more power.'

Plus, it seems this may well be the last year for the BRZ, with Toyota reportedly pulling out of the relationship to focus on their own line of upcoming sports cars (Celica and MR2).

Last week I finally test drove one (which has been hard to do, since most dealers haven't had any in stock). It was a 2025 tS, which I compared with my 2019 Limited with Performance Package.

What I liked:

Power. The 2025 clearly had more power. It's amazing how quick it felt with just a 2.4 liter engine. Subaru delivered the good on this. Absolutely no one can now reasonably complain about the car not being 'fast enough' at this price.

Ride. It seemed a bit quieter and possibly smoother riding, though if it was it was slight and subjective. The seats also seemed a little more comfortable than my 2019.

What I wasn't impressed with:

Exterior styling. Styling is purely a personal thing, there's no right or wrong about it. It's solely whatever you like. I personally don't like the styling as much as my 2019. To my (admittedly old-school, because I'm old) eyes it seems somehow a combination of less distinctive and a bit more generic 'sports car.' Most of all I can't warm up to the atomic rocket bunny side sills. They just seem overwrought and cheap. I did like that the forward view preserves the bumps on the front fenders.

Interior styling. Was my biggest disappointment. It seems more cheaply built and less stylish than my 2019. The dash looks the cheapest, with the all digital dash. Yes, some people will prefer and love that, but I'm not one of them. An iPad for an instrument panel instead of gen-u-ine analog gauges just screams cost-cutting to me.

The infotainment touch screen is certainly bigger, but looks less well integrated. It looks like it was hot-glued to the dash.

The door panels are less styled. Compared with my 2019 which has different textures, materials, and colors, the 2025 door panels look like the most one could do in a single mold, torturing polymers to the limits of their abilities.

The dash on my 2019 has controls with more colors and textures than the 2025. Of course neither is a premium car, this is very much a car built to a price, but it seemed to me that the 2025 was engineered with a finer scalpel put to costs.

Much has been made of the 'torque dip' of the first gen 2.0 engine and how the second gen 2.4 eliminates it. Probably. truth be told, I've never been bothered by or even felt it in my car in normal street driving. It's not important to me what an engine dyno shows. All that matters to me is my butt dyno, how it feels in the seat of my pants, and if I'm having fun driving like a (reasonably) sane person on public roads. For that kind of driving I've never noticed the supposed torque dip of the 2.0.

Overall, if I didn't own my 2019 I would absolutely buy the 2025 and love it! But my 2019 only has 8500 miles and is in pristine condition. To get a 2025 would probably take about $13,000 on top of my 2019. To me it's just not worth anywhere near that difference.

I might someday regret it, but the experience left me even happier with my 2019 than I was before.

As always, YMMV.

[Tatsu333]

Your experience kind of backs up my feelings on the 1st gen vs 2nd gen proposition. Aside from the engine, I see no compelling reason to update from my 2020 Sport Tech RS which only has 18,000 kms on it, and I personally MUCH prefer the 1st gen exterior and interior design.

With the FA24 swap now being pretty much plug-and-play, updating the one thing that's superior with the 2nd gen, while not cheap, is relatively simple, so that's what I'm aiming for down the road when funds allow.

[Tatsu333]

Your experience kind of backs up my feelings on the 1st gen vs 2nd gen proposition. Aside from the engine, I see no compelling reason to update from my 2020 Sport Tech RS which only has 18,000 kms on it, and I personally MUCH prefer the 1st gen exterior and interior design.

With the FA24 swap now being pretty much plug-and-play, updating the one thing that's superior with the 2nd gen, while not cheap, is relatively simple, so that's what I'm aiming for down the road when funds allow.

[AnalogMan]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Your experience kind of backs up my feelings on the 1st gen vs 2nd gen proposition. Aside from the engine, I see no compelling reason to update from my 2020 Sport Tech RS which only has 18,000 kms on it, and I personally MUCH prefer the 1st gen exterior and interior design.

With the FA24 swap now being pretty much plug-and-play, updating the one thing that's superior with the 2nd gen, while not cheap, is relatively simple, so that's what I'm aiming for down the road when funds allow.

There’s a plug and play FA24 swap? I need to look into this. Not now, my car only has 8500 miles, but if I come across a junkyard engine…

Thanks!

[Tatsu333]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

There’s a plug and play FA24 swap? I need to look into this. Not now, my car only has 8500 miles, but if I come across a junkyard engine…

Thanks!

Particularly for 2017-2020 1st gens, it's very straightforward. Hachi Electronics has a harness adapter that mates the FA24 to the FA20 ECU, and then you swap over a couple of sensors and modify the engine mounts. Details and a guide to the swap are here: https://hachielectronics.com/product...e-swap-harness

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by AnalogMan

There’s a plug and play FA24 swap? I need to look into this. Not now, my car only has 8500 miles, but if I come across a junkyard engine…

Thanks!

If you are interested in more power, it's a good swap. I love mine. FA24's run any where from $4000 up to $6000. You could probably sell your engine for $4000. Doing the work yourself would make it a sweet deal.

[jetvermillion]

Headers and tune might be enough

I went the opposite way. Shopped around for a gen 1 in 2020 but prices sky rocketed. I had hoped to get a good deal with gen 2 around the corner. Waited for things to calm down, then gen 2 came out, and I wasn't sold on it until I sat in one in person. It was too hard to pass on the chassis improvements. Stylistically, particularly the interior, there are elements in the gen 1 that I prefer. If anyone is looking to get into this platform, I would recommend gen 2 unless they cant get over the looks. If they already have a gen 1, I dont see it worthwhile to move to a gen 2 unless they are after very specific things

[Dirty Harry]

I drove a 2nd gen in early 2022, a while ago now, I loved the extra power and torque, so much so I ended up getting headers and a tune on my gen 1. It made a big difference. I agree with the above if you have a good condition low mileage gen 1 it’s not worth the upgrade. Plus I prefer the looks of the gen 1. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t buy a 2nd gen, if my car was a write off and I needed a new car a gen 2 would be on the list.

[Ernest72]

I have 125k on my 16 daily. If the engine goes I will do the swap. But somehow I think I will be taking this thing to 250k or more. Mostly highway driven with headers and tune.

[smackrel]

I agree with almost everyone here.
I like the looks of the 1st Gen better.
Wouldn't mind moar powa, but are happy with the 2017 I have.
If I needed to get a brand new car, it would almost certainly be a 2nd Gen.
I didn't get the color I wanted so I would make sure I got the color choice right next time!

[ZDan]

"Headers and tune" on a 1st gen won't get remotely close to a 2nd gen. I had ACE-350 header and well-developed tune on my '17 BRZ PP. My stock-power '23 is +5mph faster on the straight every track I ran at. +10mph faster at Watkins Glen with a tail-wind! +6mph the next day tho.

Anyway, I love the '22+ more swoopy front fenders, always found the 1st-gens to be a bit goofy, kinda like an early '70s AMC Javelin. Other than that, mostly prefer my old '17 PP because:
Better steering feel (new one feels like there's some kind of viscous drag or resistance, and also can kind of firm up, lose assist under hard cornering at the track on sticky tires).
Better dash (bright red tach needle >> stupid white swooshy thing)
Much finer fuel gauge resolution (maybe 100+ needle ticks vs. 12 discrete "blocks", which is dumb)
Much more useful DTE which read in 1 mile increments all the way down to zero, new one *stupidly* reads in 10-mile increments, then at the end just goes from "10 miles" to "--". Practically useless...

Also I don't stream and don't have music on my phone, I like to listen to CDs on road trips, new car no CD-player

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by Tatsu333

Your experience kind of backs up my feelings on the 1st gen vs 2nd gen proposition. Aside from the engine, I see no compelling reason to update from my 2020 Sport Tech RS which only has 18,000 kms on it, and I personally MUCH prefer the 1st gen exterior and interior design.

With the FA24 swap now being pretty much plug-and-play, updating the one thing that's superior with the 2nd gen, while not cheap, is relatively simple, so that's what I'm aiming for down the road when funds allow.

Would you mind to help me understand what must be done for the swap? is it possibile to swap just the short block and maybe intake manifold, and reuse FA20 heads and everything else?

[jetvermillion]

Originally Posted by ZDan

"Headers and tune" on a 1st gen won't get remotely close to a 2nd gen. I had ACE-350 header and well-developed tune on my '17 BRZ PP. My stock-power '23 is +5mph faster on the straight every track I ran at. +10mph faster at Watkins Glen with a tail-wind! +6mph the next day tho.

Anyway, I love the '22+ more swoopy front fenders, always found the 1st-gens to be a bit goofy, kinda like an early '70s AMC Javelin. Other than that, mostly prefer my old '17 PP because:
Better steering feel (new one feels like there's some kind of viscous drag or resistance, and also can kind of firm up, lose assist under hard cornering at the track on sticky tires).
Better dash (bright red tach needle >> stupid white swooshy thing)
Much finer fuel gauge resolution (maybe 100+ needle ticks vs. 12 discrete "blocks", which is dumb)
Much more useful DTE which read in 1 mile increments all the way down to zero, new one *stupidly* reads in 10-mile increments, then at the end just goes from "10 miles" to "--". Practically useless...

Also I don't stream and don't have music on my phone, I like to listen to CDs on road trips, new car no CD-player

All my complaints about the 2nd gen are about the interior. Not that I dislike it, but gen 1 had more styling, contrast stitching, wider variety of tones, materials, lines, cooler seat design, etc. Gen 2 interior looks cool at first but gets boring very quickly. Lots of black and straight lines regardless of trim. The digital tach is cool in the way of modernizing without going overboard, but compared to an analog tach that actually has color and doesnt look like its graphics came out of a TI-89, i'll take the gen 1 tach

[blsfrs]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

Would you mind to help me understand what must be done for the swap? is it possibile to swap just the short block and maybe intake manifold, and reuse FA20 heads and everything else?

Best bet is to source a complete FA24. There are folks that have done a 20/24 hybrid but it sounds like a pita for only small gains. Here's my saga for my swap.
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154841