Another 2nd-gen engine failure at track...

[Arthur-A]

"B...bUt MaNuAl SaYs.."

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Arthur-A

"B...bUt MaNuAl SaYs.."

tHe MaNuFcTeR nOs BeSt

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

You think they designed it on 0w20? LOL The 0w20 is ONLY in the crank case to meet the EPA mandated fuel economy numbers. Not because it protects the engine better, because it doesn't.

Yes, it WAS designed for 0w20. You put that shit into an engine not designed for it and see how it responds. While I agree that thicker oil did not cause this failure, There's still a good argument for controlling engine oil temperature for the sake of shedding heat from the internals. I argue that engines designed to operate using thin lubes may be more vulnerable to physical distortion brought on by wide thermal gradients and high operating temperatures in general.


Just because the oil can maintain viscosity at 300 F doesn't necessarily mean it's ok for the rest of the engine to be operated like that.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Dry sump is the answer.

Dry sump so expensive though

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Dry sump so expensive though

[RZNT4R]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

You think they designed it on 0w20? LOL The 0w20 is ONLY in the crank case to meet the EPA mandated fuel economy numbers. Not because it protects the engine better, because it doesn't.

What's fun to consider is that a Ford 6.8 V10 in an E350 has "5W20" on the filler cap, while the same 6.8 V10 in an E450 incomplete chassis has 5W30. I'd wager the main difference between those two applications is how they fit in the CAFE rulebook.

Any engine I come across with an iffy oil spec that reeks of EPA I disregard. Ford modulars get 5W30, HEMIs get 5W30, the pentatrash 3.6 V6 was born with 5W30 and was later moved to 5W20. You can bet your ass I put 5W30 in it when that engine is in anything heavier than a caravan, like a ram or promaster.

And my 86 gets Motul 5W30 in summer. Still gets 0W20 in winter though because I go down to almost -30 degrees celcius.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

What's fun to consider is that a Ford 6.8 V10 in an E350 has "5W20" on the filler cap, while the same 6.8 V10 in an E450 incomplete chassis has 5W30. I'd wager the main difference between those two applications is how they fit in the CAFE rulebook.

Any engine I come across with an iffy oil spec that reeks of EPA I disregard. Ford modulars get 5W30, HEMIs get 5W30, the pentatrash 3.6 V6 was born with 5W30 and was later moved to 5W20. You can bet your ass I put 5W30 in it when that engine is in anything heavier than a caravan, like a ram or promaster.

And my 86 gets Motul 5W30 in summer. Still gets 0W20 in winter though because I go down to almost -30 degrees celcius.

Also consider that a Coyote GT standard model specs 5w-20, but opt for the Track Pack, and the identical engine calls for 5w-50. Not just at the track. All the time. Look at the factory service manual and what the spec is on all the bearing clearances and compare them to ours...
I've run 0w40 daily, year round, in Canadian winters, and on track at Mosport, Cayuga, Grand Bend, Shannonville, Road Atlanta and Road America, no oil cooler, with R-comps, TRD sway bars, and RCE Tarmac 2(coilovers for only 1 summer. BRZ tS dampers and TRD springs from day 1) for over 255,000 KMS. Not once has my car ever had an oil related issue. It's never overheated. You'll not catch me letting the EPA dictate how to protect my engine. It's never gone into limp mode. In fact, the only thing that ever has happened beyond scheduled maintenance and wear items was an OE battery went dead, and two Toyota dealership batteries exploded back to back within weeks of each other. No issue since switching to an Optima Yellow Top 3 years ago.

[blsfrs]

Anybody installed and tested Killer B's solution?

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by blsfrs

Anybody installed and tested Killer B's solution?

There is an active thread which has track testing with some of their beta products. Intial results suggest further development is still needed.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Dry sump is the answer.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Dry sump so expensive though

There's this:

[RZNT4R]

That's a nice install, and configured like that, accumulator only with a manual valve, is probably pretty cheap and more than enough for the very momentary dips that are being seen.

[blsfrs]

What air psi are you starting at?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by RZNT4R

That's a nice install, and configured like that, accumulator only with a manual valve, is probably pretty cheap and more than enough for the very momentary dips that are being seen.

Originally Posted by blsfrs

What air psi are you starting at?

This is not my setup, somebody posted this up on f-book. If I go this route I'll probably go with 7psi or whatever the lowest recommendation is.

[RZNT4R]

lowest recommended pressure

Moroso has a different idea with their accumulator

more precharge wil yield less volume, but less pressure drop as that volume is supplied. The good thing about such a system is it would be easy to precharge at a higher pressure to account for instantaneous pressure drops at a track with short corners, but if you hit a track with a long sweeper, drop the precharge a bit to trade pressure for volume.

Someone in the comments even set it up for the best of both worlds: an aux air tank for a lower precharge yielding sustained pressure AND greater oil volume.

[edit]

The picture looks like a canadian brethen, what with the big "AVERTISSEMENT" sticker on the brake booster.