Best Braking Upgrade Progression for Daily Driving

[Spektyr]

So I'm thinking about getting some more "whoa" for the GR86.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here, but here's my thought process:

Single Stop:
As long as heavy pressure on the brake pedal engages the ABS system your braking power is limited by your tires. Bigger/better brakes don't shorten your stopping distances because you need more grip.

Multiple Stops:
It's possible to be limited by tires on a single stop, and by brake pads/rotors/fluid/etc. if you're heating the brakes up enough they fade through heavy use of the braking system.


So from a non-track daily-driver perspective, tires are always going to be the first thing on the list. Naturally, the better the grip the worse the treadwear (generally) so there's the question of how much do you want to pay for tires (individually and more rapid replacement) for how much stopping power. Bonus - better grip does more than just improve stopping.

The next question is to what extent does heating play a role in braking performance of the stock brakes OUTSIDE track conditions. Spirited driving, extended downhill grades, etc. can all need repeated use of the brakes which, if unexpectedly followed by an emergency requiring peak braking performance could leave you with less stopping power than you need.


I've been eyeing the Powerstop Z26 "Street Warrior" brake upgrade kit specifically. It's not terribly expensive, carbon-fiber ceramic brake pads without the typical race pad noise, cross-drilled slotted rotors... and if we're being honest I'm more than slightly tempted just by the looks (and would probably paint the calipers while I'm in there.)

But the big question is whether it really makes sense in normal-to-spirited driving. I could (but haven't) go out and do some rapid-fire acceleration/braking to see how much it takes to lose braking power on the stock equipment and then gauge for myself whether I think realistically I'm ever going to hit that point real-world on public roads. My stance is that while I'd 100% do at least pads and fluid if I were going to track the car, my primary concern for the brakes are accident avoidance on city street/highways where other (stupid) drivers are allowed to operate motor vehicles despite obviously lacking the skills to do so safely.

Facts, opinions, suggestions, everything is welcome.

EDIT: should mention that I'm considering FI at some point in the future, after the risk-takers blow a few engines and determine how much boost is too much boost on stock internals. But that's obviously at least 8-12 months down the road.

[DocWalt]

The stock pads are pretty adequate for anything other than driving canyons like a crazy person or track use.

Cross drilled rotors are a downgrade.

The Z26 pads are fine, but not really an upgrade from stock.

[removedonut]

I drive canyons like a crazy person on stock pads, they’re quite good actually so long as you don’t overheat them. I don’t think you’ll find a better pad for street driving without compromising on noise or dust.
One thing to note with the stock pads is they are very linear. Many people are used to pads with a ton of initial bite (this has become a trend for stock pads on econoboxes in the past decade, for some reason) but our pads apply the amount of braking that you tell them to.

[DarkPira7e]

I run TRD pads on blank centrics, I find they last quite a while longer before overheating on downhill than stock did. Nothing really wrong with the stock braking system for street driving, just get better fluid in there- having sewage for fluid is far more common than it should be.

[LancePower]

+1 on the TRD pads.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

So I'm thinking about getting some more "whoa" for the GR86.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here, but here's my thought process:

.

WOW! You put a lot of thought into that street braking situation -

Now, that you have overthought it, I suggest you just stick with the OEM brake parts, especially, since I have never seen a hill long enough in Kansas to overheat the OEM pads.

[Sapphireho]

Go with stock until you out perform them.

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by humfrz

WOW! You put a lot of thought into that street braking situation -

Now, that you have overthought it, I suggest you just stick with the OEM brake parts, especially, since I have never seen a hill long enough in Kansas to overheat the OEM pads.

We do have roads that lead to other states... as much as we might prefer otherwise sometimes.

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Go with stock until you out perform them.

Provided the "out performing" doesn't involve stopping a few feet beyond an obstacle, that's good advice. Brakes are a "better to have and not need" kind of thing.

I think the conclusion here is that tires and not driving on the street like it's a race track is where the biggest gains are. I'll probably just wait until the PS4's wear down enough to justify replacing them with something stickier.

Or until someone has a great offer on a set of wheels that aren't "pickup only". I'm mildly amused by those classifieds on the forum - "why won't anyone buy these wheels, I'm offering them at a great price". Sure, but you've limited the buyers to just people willing to drive to get them. But I digress... mildly annoying to see a good deal that driving 1500 miles turns into a terrible deal.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Basic info but worth a read:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CN7YfpVn..._web_copy_link



In short, what other's have said is pretty much spot on. What do you want to improve?

Nothing wrong with OEM rotors and OEM lines for your uses (and most people). OEM pads on the 2nd gen are better than 1st gen pads, which felt like crap to me. It would be difficult but not impossible to fade OEM pads on public roads while driving with some level of self-control.

There are a couple of mild upgrade pads out there that improve fade resistance and feel without making noise. Trade off is usually dust and they're not free.

- Andrew

[WNDSRFR]

not driving on the street like it's a race track is where the biggest gains are

Yeah

[DarkSunrise]

The stock pads on my 22 BRZ seem worse for daily driving than my old 13 FR-S. The initial bite is not great, especially cold. On the flipside, they seems to hold up to hard driving a little better. I wonder if this was an intentional compromise by Subaru/Toyota to keep costs down by keeping the same brake hardware from the 1st gen, but give it a bit more fade resistance to cope with the extra power.

I'm going to try swapping to Stoptech 309 pads for street use and see how those feel.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

I'm mildly amused by those classifieds on the forum - "why won't anyone buy these wheels, I'm offering them at a great price". Sure, but you've limited the buyers to just people willing to drive to get them. But I digress... mildly annoying to see a good deal that driving 1500 miles turns into a terrible deal.

The problem is it's insanely expensive to pack and ship boxes that large and heavy when you aren't a vendor.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Spektyr

So I'm thinking about getting some more "whoa" for the GR86.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here, but here's my thought process:

Single Stop:
As long as heavy pressure on the brake pedal engages the ABS system your braking power is limited by your tires. Bigger/better brakes don't shorten your stopping distances because you need more grip.

Multiple Stops:
It's possible to be limited by tires on a single stop, and by brake pads/rotors/fluid/etc. if you're heating the brakes up enough they fade through heavy use of the braking system.


So from a non-track daily-driver perspective, tires are always going to be the first thing on the list. Naturally, the better the grip the worse the treadwear (generally) so there's the question of how much do you want to pay for tires (individually and more rapid replacement) for how much stopping power. Bonus - better grip does more than just improve stopping.

The next question is to what extent does heating play a role in braking performance of the stock brakes OUTSIDE track conditions. Spirited driving, extended downhill grades, etc. can all need repeated use of the brakes which, if unexpectedly followed by an emergency requiring peak braking performance could leave you with less stopping power than you need.


I've been eyeing the Powerstop Z26 "Street Warrior" brake upgrade kit specifically. It's not terribly expensive, carbon-fiber ceramic brake pads without the typical race pad noise, cross-drilled slotted rotors... and if we're being honest I'm more than slightly tempted just by the looks (and would probably paint the calipers while I'm in there.)

But the big question is whether it really makes sense in normal-to-spirited driving. I could (but haven't) go out and do some rapid-fire acceleration/braking to see how much it takes to lose braking power on the stock equipment and then gauge for myself whether I think realistically I'm ever going to hit that point real-world on public roads. My stance is that while I'd 100% do at least pads and fluid if I were going to track the car, my primary concern for the brakes are accident avoidance on city street/highways where other (stupid) drivers are allowed to operate motor vehicles despite obviously lacking the skills to do so safely.

Facts, opinions, suggestions, everything is welcome.

EDIT: should mention that I'm considering FI at some point in the future, after the risk-takers blow a few engines and determine how much boost is too much boost on stock internals. But that's obviously at least 8-12 months down the road.

Check out the CSG CP. It sounds like a perfect match for what you're looking for.

Your OEM rotors are superior to those (cheap) slotted rotors. Spend the money on better pads and fluid instead, for a much larger tangible return on your spend.

Originally Posted by removedonut

I drive canyons like a crazy person on stock pads, they’re quite good actually so long as you don’t overheat them. I don’t think you’ll find a better pad for street driving without compromising on noise or dust.
One thing to note with the stock pads is they are very linear. Many people are used to pads with a ton of initial bite (this has become a trend for stock pads on econoboxes in the past decade, for some reason) but our pads apply the amount of braking that you tell them to.

The CSG CP is exactly that pad you're been looking for. Less dust than stock. No noise. More stopping power than stock. MASSIVELY elevated capacity for heat over stock.

[Pat]

I'm really curious to see what the CP pads are like to live with.