New ICE Vehicles Banned in California by 2035

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

If it ever comes to that, we can probably expect rolling blackouts - different grids will be allowed to charge during different time windows to avoid overloading. Heck, we might go full circle and bring back the horse buggies.

Left alone to the markets, people will figure out the right balance between various power sources - petroleum, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, tidal, etc. It's only when private-jet-flying doomsday-mongering criminals stick their nose in that this balance gets screwed up. And We The Peasants get the shaft in the end.

Most battery charging is done at off-peak hours in the middle of the night or mid day when people park at work, which should flatten the duck curve created from solar. Growing the energy grid over time is not a challenge, and we know that because we have added energy to the grid at a faster rate in the past than we currently do today. We also have a number of new storage technologies coming to market that should allow us to build more energy systems without overloading the grid and to support peak use. Check out this thread to learn about many of those technologies.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143867

Unfortunately, burning fossil fuels is highly unsustainable at best and devastating to the environment at worst, besides being fiscally volatile as the supply fluctuates. Moving to more sustainable energy could be left to the markets, but the market will always pick the cheapest solution in the short term, which isn’t necessarily the best for the long term or for stability. The government could do nothing to regulate emissions or to incentivize moving to green technology and allow the markets to figure things out. This would be a disaster.

[WolfpackS2k]

The government could do nothing to regulate emissions or to incentivize moving to green technology and allow the markets to figure things out. This would be a disaster.

We're already witnessing a disaster first hand, almost entirely brought to you by the left leaning side of most "western" governments.

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

So, are you saying the "Peasants" are going to be the ones out building power plants? Seems unlikely.

Are we gonna have a fully developed grid to support the EV needs by 2035?

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/08/13/...n-energy-cost/

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Most battery charging is done at off-peak hours in the middle of the night or mid day when people park at work, which should flatten the duck curve created from solar. Growing the energy grid over time is not a challenge, and we know that because we have added energy to the grid at a faster rate in the past than we currently do today. We also have a number of new storage technologies coming to market that should allow us to build more energy systems without overloading the grid and to support peak use. Check out this thread to learn about many of those technologies.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143867

Unfortunately, burning fossil fuels is highly unsustainable at best and devastating to the environment at worst, besides being fiscally volatile as the supply fluctuates. Moving to more sustainable energy could be left to the markets, but the market will always pick the cheapest solution in the short term, which isn’t necessarily the best for the long term or for stability. The government could do nothing to regulate emissions or to incentivize moving to green technology and allow the markets to figure things out. This would be a disaster.

It wasn't that long ago when Texas froze over. And California had rolling blackouts. And look at what's going on in EU and UK.

What exactly is your point again?

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

That's not really true. The market drives for efficiency but neglects external costs. Read on the tragedy of the commons as a good example of why the market sometimes needs intervention.

Efficiency actually drives OEMs to build the vehicles. If the cost isn't apparent in $, it will be in other ways. Just the past 2 years has shown the world what happens when you depend too much on 1 country for raw materials. Some country are more efficient with one source of energy, while other geographies might be different. Trying to force a geography into something that it isn't built for, is not efficient. When you have 1 country controlling 70-80% of raw materials for batteries, that's gonna turn out pretty expensive as well.
https://www.autoblog.com/2022/08/13/...n-energy-cost/

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

We're already witnessing a disaster first hand, almost entirely brought to you by the left leaning side of most "western" governments.

Some (most) people don't realize that they're being played. The same crowd that has convinced them of EVs are the same ones flying private jets around.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

Are we gonna have a fully developed grid to support the EV needs by 2035?

If I knew that, I guess I would be one of the "jet flying" overlords. Ultimately, I'm asking who do you think will solve the problem you are presenting?

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If I knew that, I guess I would be one of the "jet flying" overlords. Ultimately, I'm asking who do you think will solve the problem you are presenting?

The question is - what exactly is the problem anyway? Without getting political, can someone describe the problem scientifically, with evidence? Is the problem the depleting petroleum? Or is the problem the emissions form petroleum? Or is the problem how do we find an alternative sustainable source that doesn't pollute the atmosphere?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

The question is - what exactly is the problem anyway? Without getting political, can someone describe the problem scientifically, with evidence? Is the problem the depleting petroleum? Or is the problem the emissions form petroleum? Or is the problem how do we find an alternative sustainable source that doesn't pollute the atmosphere?

You asked who was going to build the electric infrastructure to match the increase in EVs, and that left to their own accord the masses would solve it (in a round about that's the way it read in my head sort of way).

Ultimately, I don't know. I thought the real answer was hydrogen fuel cells but I've been outvoted.

I think the real answer remains Mr. Fusion.

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

You asked who was going to build the electric infrastructure to match the increase in EVs, and that left to their own accord the masses would solve it (in a round about that's the way it read in my head sort of way).

Ultimately, I don't know. I thought the real answer was hydrogen fuel cells but I've been outvoted.

I think the real answer remains Mr. Fusion.

My real concern is - how does a country stay fully self-reliant and self-sustained while being ethical and cause least damage to the environment? As such, if crude oil doesn't fit the bill, when what next. Electricity is definitely not the solution. The US might not be directly affected by the mining, but the exporters are. That's unethical. Moreover, being a net importer of energy is a terrible idea, something that became even more obvious in the recent years.

I'm not fully aware of the challenges of hydrogen power. How does one refuel hydrogen? Do you just swap out the cylinder? Filling liquid gasoline is much easier than gaseous hydrogen, since the leaks can't be managed.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

My real concern is - how does a country stay fully self-reliant and self-sustained while being ethical and cause least damage to the environment? As such, if crude oil doesn't fit the bill, when what next. Electricity is definitely not the solution. The US might not be directly affected by the mining, but the exporters are. That's unethical. Moreover, being a net importer of energy is a terrible idea, something that became even more obvious in the recent years.

I'm not fully aware of the challenges of hydrogen power. How does one refuel hydrogen? Do you just swap out the cylinder? Filling liquid gasoline is much easier than gaseous hydrogen, since the leaks can't be managed.

There’s too many of us for anything to be sustainable.

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

There’s too many of us for anything to be sustainable.

Ironically, none of those who complain about too much population has ever volunteered to solve the problem starting with themselves.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

Ironically, none of those who complain about too much population has ever volunteered to solve the problem starting with themselves.

I have no kids, no intent to

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

My real concern is - how does a country stay fully self-reliant and self-sustained while being ethical and cause least damage to the environment? As such, if crude oil doesn't fit the bill, when what next. Electricity is definitely not the solution. The US might not be directly affected by the mining, but the exporters are. That's unethical. Moreover, being a net importer of energy is a terrible idea, something that became even more obvious in the recent years.

I'm not fully aware of the challenges of hydrogen power. How does one refuel hydrogen? Do you just swap out the cylinder? Filling liquid gasoline is much easier than gaseous hydrogen, since the leaks can't be managed.

I think hydrogen stations are liquified hydrogen.
Problem is they get super cold and when its done filling a hydrogen car the nozzle might get stuck cuz it froze to the car's nozzle lol.